Let's play a game

[Dirtyhip]

The game is called "Name that damper."

OK, GO!

 

[dinneR ★]

Looks like a pulley.

[Dirtyhip]

3 minutes ago, dennis said:

Looks like a pulley.

It does look like one.  It's a damper though.

 

[ChrisL]

Looks like the star nut on the top of the shock.  I haven’t messed with dampers on my forks so don’t know what they look like.

[Dirtyhip]

C'mon dirt riders.  It's a damper from a fork.  Huge hint:  Circa 2010

1 minute ago, ChrisL said:

Looks like the star nut on the top of the shock.  I haven’t messed with dampers on my forks so don’t know what they look like.

DING DING!  You can see this from the top of the fork.  Which fork? 

[ChrisL]

3 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

C'mon dirt riders.  It's a damper from a fork.  Huge hint:  Circa 2010

DING DING!  You can see this from the top of the fork.  Which fork? 

Rox Shox Pike??? 

[Dirtyhip]

2 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Rox Shox Pike??? 

 

Pike wasn't around in 2010.  try again.

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

 

Pike wasn't around in 2010.  try again.

I was still a Roadie in 2010... Judy?

[Dirtyhip]

4 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

I was still a Roadie in 2010... Judy?

You are cute.   

Another GIANT ENORMOUS HINT:  DH Bike fork

[Dirtyhip]

C'mon. 

[ChrisL]

Revelation?  Final answer...

[Dirtyhip]

7 hours ago, ChrisL said:

Revelation?  Final answer...

Sorry, wrong.

 

[donkpow]

[Razors Edge ★]

I can't remember the name of it, but I did find a photo that might help!

[Razors Edge ★]

...but some sort of RockShox Totem is my answer.

[dinneR ★]

Fox

[Razors Edge ★]

1 hour ago, dennis said:

Fox

We will NEVER know since @Dirtyhip has abandoned us again and is sticking to P&R.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

...but some sort of RockShox Totem is my answer.

... with the Solo Air getting a review here.

[Dirtyhip]

It's not Fox. 

No correct answers so far.

[dinneR ★]

reba

[Dirtyhip]

Another hint:  ???

[Dirtyhip]

 

[Dirtyhip]

28 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

... with the Solo Air getting a review here.

Closer …  so close

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

It's not Fox. 

No correct answers so far. 

Are you nuts? That puppy is a RockShox Totem DH Solo Air! You just don't want to give me my prize!!!!

[Dirtyhip]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

Are you nuts? That puppy is a RockShox Totem DH Solo Air! You just don't want to give me my prize!!!!

OK, You did find a similar fork, with the same damper style.  Technically, it’s a Mission Control DH damper. Slightly different valve design than the Mission Control from Lyrik and Totem of the time.

It's a Boxxer, Mission Control, from 2010. 

RZ is close enough.

[Dirtyhip]

Thanks for playing.  That was fun. 

[donkpow]

Just now, Dirtyhip said:

It's a Boxxer, Mission Control, from 2010. 

I was just getting ready to say that. If RZ wasn't such a big baby ...

[Dirtyhip]

25 minutes ago, donkpow said:

I was just getting ready to say that. If RZ wasn't such a big baby ...

I know, right?  

? <=== this is the consolation prize.  

?

 

[Razors Edge ★]

34 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Thanks for playing.  That was fun. 

It WAS fun.

And, it is a bugger all looking through Specialized's archive for 2010 to see any monster DH bikes. I came across the Demo, and when I googled the "RockShox Boxxer Race fork", I got all sorts of nonsense.

200mm-travel RockShox Boxxer Race fork with 20mm Maxle thru-axle delivers complete tunability through external compression and rebound adjusters

I looked at the next level of Demo, and it came with the "World Cup" version but still didn't google very well

200mm-travel RockShox BoXXer World Cup DH dual-crown fork offers complete adjustability of high and low-speed compression and beginning/ending stroke rebound, Solo Air cartridge allow simultaneous negative/positive air spring tuning

....but the next level of Demo had a successful "google", so I knew I was on track.

20mm thru-axle Maxle 360 RockShox Totem Solo Air fork features 180mm of travel with external compression/rebound damping adjusters and tunable negative/positive air spring chamber for precision tunability

[Dirtyhip]

4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

It WAS fun.

And, it is a bugger all looking through Specialized's archive for 2010 to see any monster DH bikes. I came across the Demo, and when I googled the "RockShox Boxxer Race fork", I got all sorts of nonsense.

200mm-travel RockShox Boxxer Race fork with 20mm Maxle thru-axle delivers complete tunability through external compression and rebound adjusters

I looked at the next level of Demo, and it came with the "World Cup" version but still didn't google very well

200mm-travel RockShox BoXXer World Cup DH dual-crown fork offers complete adjustability of high and low-speed compression and beginning/ending stroke rebound, Solo Air cartridge allow simultaneous negative/positive air spring tuning

....but the next level of Demo had a successful "google", so I knew I was on track.

20mm thru-axle Maxle 360 RockShox Totem Solo Air fork features 180mm of travel with external compression/rebound damping adjusters and tunable negative/positive air spring chamber for precision tunability

Thank for playing.  Bikes are rad.

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Thank for playing.  Bikes are rad.

Yep.

Of course, if @Page Turner decides to ask questions about some of the parts on his "antiques", we're in trouble!  Google doesn't go back that far

[Dirtyhip]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

Yep.

Of course, if @Page Turner decides to ask questions about some of the parts on his "antiques", we're in trouble!  Google doesn't go back that far

Gosh, I would lose so badly.  I know nothing about vintage bikes.

[Page Turner]

22 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

The game is called "Name that damper."

 

...looks like  a Griswold.

[Page Turner]

5 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

And, it is a bugger all looking through Specialized's archive for 2010 to see any monster DH bikes. I came across the Demo, and when I googled the "RockShox Boxxer Race fork", I got all sorts of nonsense.

...they're not designed with either repair options or long term availability of repair parts in mind, so if you can't find them, that's good.

[Page Turner]

Just now, Page Turner said:

...they're not designed with either repair options or long term availability of repair parts in mind, so if you can't find them, that's good.

...yet I can still get generic shock replacements to fit a 1965 VW bug.  It's kind of mind boggling.

[Dirtyhip]

Btw the demo is my dream bike. My husband tells me that there is no where to ride it here. Which is true. Should I make him move to Whistler? Haha

[Dirtyhip]

8 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...they're not designed with either repair options or long term availability of repair parts in mind, so if you can't find them, that's good.

Not really true. 

Besides, by the time it is old enough where you can't get parts, you won't want to ride it cause the tech is outdated and old. I would not want to ride my mtb from 10 years ago.

Road bikes don't need to have the performance of a mtb. You folks are just cruising down a road with no terrain.

[Dirtyhip]

10 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...yet I can still get generic shock replacements to fit a 1965 VW bug.  It's kind of mind boggling.

Driving one of those is a death trap. Why would you want to?

[Page Turner]

Just now, Dirtyhip said:

Road bikes don't need to have the performance of a mtb. You folks are just cruising down a road with no terrain.

...performance is in the eye of the beholder.  I have yet to ride up a hill in a gondola lift with my road bike so I can schralp down the same hill.  And the idea that something as simple as this years mountain bike ought to be somehow outdated in ten years to the point I throw it away is offensive to me.

All those fancy jumps might be fun, but you rarely deal with wind resistance at the speeds you ride a mountain bike unless you're already pointed downhill.  And when you're pointed downhill, it doesn't count.

 

[Page Turner]

3 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Driving one of those is a death trap. Why would you want to?

...it's safer than a Fiat 600 ?

[Page Turner]

...Q: Why is there no simple, non proprietary standard for bicycle shocks ?

A: There's a lot more money to be made in proprietary technology and selling new bikes every few years to people who need the latest and greatest.

Best Example: The infamous Cannondale Headshock (AKA Cannondale POS)

[Dirtyhip]

4 minutes ago, Page Turner said:

...it's safer than a Fiat 600 ?

Likely, yes.

I've owned several bugs. My last one felt like the Flintstones compared to our truck.

[Page Turner]

1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

I've owned several bugs.

...I had a '65 that I learned a lot working on.  Did at least one engine swap, and rebuilt the front end.  I finally got tired of having a car you had to crawl underneath to adjust the valves.  But like I said, I learned a lot from that car.  

[Dirtyhip]

You can rebuild ten year old mountainbikes and forks, Paige.  Ten years old, most of the bikes have moved on to other things.  That is how this thread started.  It was a rebuild on a 2010, ground control fork.  It was being rebuilt by a suspension master.

[Dirtyhip]

1 hour ago, Page Turner said:

...Q: Why is there no simple, non proprietary standard for bicycle shocks ?

A: There's a lot more money to be made in proprietary technology and selling new bikes every few years to people who need the latest and greatest.

Best Example: The infamous Cannondale Headshock (AKA Cannondale POS)

There is no standard in bicycling.  we used to laugh at customers when they came in and asked for a standard anything.  My favorite things was taking them to this giant poster and point to all the different derailleur hangers.  

There are many shock manufacturers.  Rock Shox, Fox, Manitou, Ohlins, ZTC, Suntour, etc.  Not many bicycle manufacturers focus on shocks.  Specialized has that new head tube thing on road bikes, but mostly the shocks are done by companies that do that well and not much else.  Industry and tech drives the market, and why would you not want it to?  We used to ride penny farthings, and other strange bikes.  Just like computers.  The stuff gets better.  I like better.

When I upgrade, I'll just sell my bike to someone that still thinks it is great, as I move on with more fun. 

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, Dirtyhip said:

When I upgrade, I'll just sell my bike to someone that still thinks it is great, as I move on with more fun. 

...how will you feel about selling them something you know they'll have trouble maintaining because the parts for the suspension won't be available after a couple of more years ?

[Page Turner]

2 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

You can rebuild ten year old mountainbikes and forks, Paige.  Ten years old, most of the bikes have moved on to other things.  That is how this thread started.  It was a rebuild on a 2010, ground control fork.  It was being rebuilt by a suspension master.

...the point is not whether you can get parts and rebuild some of them. The point is that you can't get parts for a lot of them. It's been a free for all in terms of design and standards. I'm very surprised you think otherwise, but I guess it's a natural outgrowth of the fact that you always buy new bikes.

 

The Advent of Metric-Based Shock Absorption Systems

Recently, several bicycle component manufacturers including Cane Creek, DVO, Manitou, RockShox, SR Suntour, and X-Fusion announced that for 2017, they would be introducing shocks and frames in lengths based on the metric system. In addition, Fox stated that it would continue to produce both Imperial and metric-based shocks dependent on market demands. Currently, most shocks are based on the Imperial system.

Currently, USA trails the rest of the world in terms of fully implementing the metric system. A system that is very logical as it’s based on multiples of ten, which makes many calculations possible without use of a calculator. This system will allow frame builders and shock designers to manufacture products using a straightforward measurement system that is easy to comprehend and implement.

Historically, shock designers created products in response to rider demands, CAD modeling, and test riding on trails. Sounds logical, yet this reactive process quickly deteriorated into a free-for-all as diverse shocks were created in response to many disparate riders’ inputs, which generated a wealth of products without a logical basis for progression in stroke length or shock dimensions. Shock engineers designed their products around the frames. Consequently, there was little standardization within the industry. This problem was magnified by the end-result wherein the imperial-based system yielded a bewildering number of shock options, 80+ options, versus the new metric system that offers 18 choices with stroke based on 5mm increments and eye-to-eye measurements in 20mm increments; a very simple and logical system....

However, the following issues arise:

• Lack of compatibility with most existing frames
• Increased costs, initially, to manufacturers that must re-design expensive carbon molds
• Larger sizes and increased weight
• It won’t improve every shock or type of suspension system
• Supply and demand rules in a small market, so if you buy a frame with this new system, it could become difficult to obtain replacement parts down the road if this system becomes obsolete
• https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/blogs/worldwide-cyclery-blog/ultimate-guide-metric-shock-sizing

 

[ChrisL]

4 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...performance is in the eye of the beholder.  I have yet to ride up a hill in a gondola lift with my road bike so I can schralp down the same hill.  And the idea that something as simple as this years mountain bike ought to be somehow outdated in ten years to the point I throw it away is offensive to me.

All those fancy jumps might be fun, but you rarely deal with wind resistance at the speeds you ride a mountain bike unless you're already pointed downhill.  And when you're pointed downhill, it doesn't count.

 

Valid point but a couple of things to consider:

Road bikes have been around 100 years.  Yes materials have improved (stronger & lighter) and technology has improved but things like head & seat tube angle, chainstay length, top tube length and wheel size hasn’t really changed a lot.

Mtn bikes are 40 years old and really started evolving the last 20 years.   yes the technology is changing but the bikes are radically evolving as things like wheel size and suspension design refine.  We are seeing big changes in head tube angle, chainstay length, top tube length & such as a result of these changes.  These things aren’t changing on road bikes.

So a ten year old mtn bike will be radically different as would a road bike from 1930 compared to 1940. Can you ride it, sure but would you want to?

Mountain bikes also take a beating that you can’t compare to road bikes.  Mountain bikes are subjected to Dirt & dust that gets  in seals & drivetrain, bumps, jumps & twisting forces stress parts unlike in road bikes.  A mtn bike could be pretty beat after a few years.

Its really an apples & oranges comparison.

[Page Turner]

1 hour ago, ChrisL said:

 We are seeing big changes in head tube angle, chainstay length, top tube length & such as a result of these changes.  These things aren’t changing on road bikes.

...I don't think this is true.

Look at @Razors Edge's Domaine or whatever the hell it is, versus any of the bikes I ride regularly here.  The idea that because mountain bikes are all over the map in terms of geometry and components is not my point at all. What I'm talking to is "repairability"and "product life", and it's becoming more and more obvious that the new plastic roadies are just as awful in terms of parts availability for certain proprietary designs.

 

You guys have been sold on a production model that makes no sense to anyone who understands product life as it relates to overall resource use. You've been sold on it because it's the only model with which you have any experience.  Pro racers have sold their frames at the end of the season in the road racing business for as far back as I can remember.  It was considered one of the perks of being a pro road racer.

I'm not 100% sure what they do with the plastic ones now.  But those are professional racers.  The idea that your average person on a  bike (road or mountain) needs the same bike that professionals race is one of the more entertaining phenomena in bicycling.  That, too, has been around as a marketing tool forever.  The only difference I see is that the product design life has been on a diminishing spiral.

[Dirtyhip]

9 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...how will you feel about selling them something you know they'll have trouble maintaining because the parts for the suspension won't be available after a couple of more years ?

I don't care, cause likely I will sell them a new one at the bike shop.

Stuff isn't made to last these days or work for long.  Case in point printers.  Have you seen the freaking ink isle at Staples?  For one, the stuff is more expensive than the printer, and don't buy extra, cause when the printer dies, you can't use those ink cart. for any other printer.  I think there should be more of a uniform design, but that is progress I guess.

Appliances, mattresses, technology, and sports equipment gets old and is thrown out.  This is life in the modern world.  

8 hours ago, ChrisL said:

Valid point but a couple of things to consider:

Road bikes have been around 100 years.  Yes materials have improved (stronger & lighter) and technology has improved but things like head & seat tube angle, chainstay length, top tube length and wheel size hasn’t really changed a lot.

Mtn bikes are 40 years old and really started evolving the last 20 years.   yes the technology is changing but the bikes are radically evolving as things like wheel size and suspension design refine.  We are seeing big changes in head tube angle, chainstay length, top tube length & such as a result of these changes.  These things aren’t changing on road bikes.

So a ten year old mtn bike will be radically different as would a road bike from 1930 compared to 1940. Can you ride it, sure but would you want to?

Mountain bikes also take a beating that you can’t compare to road bikes.  Mountain bikes are subjected to Dirt & dust that gets  in seals & drivetrain, bumps, jumps & twisting forces stress parts unlike in road bikes.  A mtn bike could be pretty beat after a few years.

Its really an apples & oranges comparison.

Thank you.  You get it.  

and you can Frankenstein stuff together if someone wants to be really frugal and buy older mountainbikes.  I have seen some crazy shit in the bike shop.  We have laughed often.  You really can repair, swap and piece together bikes that are 10+ years old,  I just don't wish to.  

My MTB is 2 years old.  It is still super sweet and I love it.  I will probably get a new one in a few more years.  I am living with this one for a while.  This is my reality, cause we have been saving 55% of our income for us to soon get off of this daily grind.  

Also, it is crazy how the internet is allowing us to find obscure parts for older bikes.  I am not too concerned about not being able to get a part.  

7 hours ago, Page Turner said:

...I don't think this is true.

Look at @Razors Edge's Domaine or whatever the hell it is, versus any of the bikes I ride regularly here.  The idea that because mountain bikes are all over the map in terms of geometry and components is not my point at all. What I'm talking to is "repairability"and "product life", and it's becoming more and more obvious that the new plastic roadies are just as awful in terms of parts availability for certain proprietary designs.

 

You guys have been sold on a production model that makes no sense to anyone who understands product life as it relates to overall resource use. You've been sold on it because it's the only model with which you have any experience.  Pro racers have sold their frames at the end of the season in the road racing business for as far back as I can remember.  It was considered one of the perks of being a pro road racer.

I'm not 100% sure what they do with the plastic ones now.  But those are professional racers.  The idea that your average person on a  bike (road or mountain) needs the same bike that professionals race is one of the more entertaining phenomena in bicycling.  That, too, has been around as a marketing tool forever.  The only difference I see is that the product design life has been on a diminishing spiral.

I don't know if I can afford to ride pro bikes forever. Especially, when I retire or cut back my income significantly. I will say that riding a high end or higher end bike is a joy.  It spins so fantastically.  The ride is light and nimble.  Today, I love my rides.

Plastic ones can be repaired.  Some companies are doing it for cracks.  Some do it well, some do not. There is also warranty going on with some bike frames.  Like lifetime warranties. You can even do crash replacement where you can upgrade and pay around cost for a new bike.

A guy I know rides an old road bike with down tube shifters for his work ride.  It's got old campy.  Its a nice vintage machine, but I look at those down tube shifters and think "ick." Who wants to reach down for every shift?  Not me.  But, have fun with that if you are into that.