...and now a break from my usual shitposting....

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

.....and no RG, I won't summarize....

[Kzoo]

Then I'm going to wait for you to summarize for someone else cause that's too long to read.

[BuffJim]

His message was War makes murderers out of otherwise decent people. All people, All wars.

 

I watched the interview the other day. Very powerful.  I believe that some wars are necessary to stop a greater injustice, but in general I agree.

[Randomguy]

58 minutes ago, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said:

.....and no RG, I won't summarize....

In Trump's world, you simply cannot prove any of that happened.

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

4 hours ago, BuffJim said:

I watched the interview the other day. Very powerful.

I was just blown away by the fact that this guy has seen the worst the world has to offer and still hasn't lost his faith in humanity.

I think I lost mine the second time I went in Walmart.

[Randomguy]

5 minutes ago, F_in Ray Of Sunshine said:

I think I lost mine the second time I went in Walmart.

God, that made me laugh!  

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

50 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

God, that made me laugh!

I was in there...around Christmas time, I think. This fairly large woman was looking at a ginormous TV and said "If I had this and mounted it on the ceiling, I'd never have to get out of bed!"

What little hope for humanity I had, died in that split second.

[LoneWolf]

6 hours ago, BuffJim said:

His message was War makes murderers out of otherwise decent people. All people, All wars.

I do believe that's true...but I do wonder what allows for the depths of depravity that the Einsatzgruppen, Gestapo, and concentration camp hierarchies and staff to not only be passive, but become actively cruel beyond belief.

I suppose it's the Stanford Prison Experiment in the extreme...but I still can't imagine it.  Let them put a bullet in the back of my head before I ever consider such a thing.  Not because I'm someone special, but because what right have I to live over someone else?

[Airehead]

Someone at meeting on Sunday spoke these words.  I think they are from a 2006 Friends called session on peace.  I've been pondering them. 

We believe that Peace begins with each of us through personal accountability, responsibility, and witness. But we can not stop there. We must love one another. We must work for justice and nonviolent solutions to conflict.

 

[Randomguy]

1 hour ago, Honey Badger said:

Not because I'm someone special, but because what right have I to live over someone else?

Good question.  I am guessing that the nazi's probably picked the people on perceived predilection towards cruelty.  Even if they didn't, I am sure some people who weren't up to following orders were made examples of.  Having another soldier shot for disobeying orders right in front of you would get you thinking if you had family.  I can see it how it would happen for lots of folks who never would think they could do that, were they forced to.

[LoneWolf]

7 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Good question.  I am guessing that the nazi's probably picked the people on perceived predilection towards cruelty.  Even if they didn't, I am sure some people who weren't up to following orders were made examples of.  Having another soldier shot for disobeying orders right in front of you would get you thinking if you had family.  I can see it how it would happen for lots of folks who never would think they could do that, were they forced to.

Actually, your answer made me think.  And remember.  And it reinforces the prosecutor's statement.

Many dedicated Nazis started from vulnerability. Lonely youths.  Teens and twentysomethings, looking desperately for acceptance.  Thirtysomethings aware only of a shaky government, the result of being humiliated by the end of World War I, which punished an entire people, not just those responsible, and helped ruin an already tottering economy burned out by war.  So many wanting to belong to something, to feel a part of something better.  And I personally know what some of that vulnerability is like.

The hardest part for me to understand though, is how that desire could win so easily when its opponent came down to belonging vs. simple humanity.  There are many things I know I'm capable of doing wrong in this life, but there are some things that will never win out against how I was raised.  Even though someone could beat the kindness out of me, the empathy, most selfless behaviors -I can't see how I could be that.  Then again, maybe it really takes having little left to fear.

Maybe that's why V for Vendetta will live in my top ten list of movies.  I can only hope that I hold on to that integrity -my last inch.

 

[Johnny Come Lately Name]

7 hours ago, Honey Badger said:

The hardest part for me to understand though, is how that desire could win so easily when its opponent came down to belonging vs. simple humanity.

It's unfortunately too easy. The first prerequisite to losing your humanity/empathy is not seeing (Nazi-ing?) the other as "human". 

There was a kid we tortured fairlessly relentlessly in middle school. We saw him as "that weird, nerdy, fat kid", not as a person so it was ok to pick on him. Sad to say, I was one of the ringleaders. Why? Misdirection. If everyone else's attention was focused on him, no one was looking at me and noticing how uncool I was.

It doesn't take much to scale that up to genocide levels, when you see another people as "them". (And anyone who says "I'd never do that!" is full of shit, unless they've actually been there. No one really knows who is capable of what -good or bad- until push comes to shove)