Are American Cyclists?

[Razors Edge ★]

...wasted in support roles?

As we've seen over the years - essentially since Lance, Hamilton, and Landis ruined it for Americans as leaders - would you say that all our top tier guys have been wasted as super domestiques or in full support roles?

Spoiler

In this Tour, we see Kuss, McNulty, and several other US guys finish high up on stages, energize many stages, OR do the work to keep some foreigner at the front of the race.  At this point, both UAE and Jumbo are depending on Americans to escort the leaders through the race, BUT will their careers be "wasted" in those roles? Or would they never be good enough anyway?

 

[ChrisL]

They don’t have to stay at their teams forever.  Kuss could move to another team as a team leader I’d think.  But they could also be happy in their roles. 

[Razors Edge ★]

36 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

They don’t have to stay at their teams forever.  Kuss could move to another team as a team leader I’d think.  But they could also be happy in their roles. 

I worry that Kuss is like Porte - by the time he decides to be the team leader, he'll see the window of opportunity closing.  At 27, he needs to act soon, as his path this year or last (losing Roglic at the Tour) was made harder since Vingegaard was around to step up instead.  Geraint Thomas got his big opportunity when Froome couldn't win the Tour, and as his chief lieutenant who was still near the top of the GC, he was able to win a Tour. That win has let him stay as a potential leader ever since (despite Sky/Ineos continuing to add bigger names or prospects ahead of him (Bernal, Carapaz, Yates, Martinez, etc.), but Kuss isn't getting those shots.

I do wonder, though, if they just know they're gonna be happier and more successful in support roles.  

[ChrisL]

4 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I worry that Kuss is like Porte - by the time he decides to be the team leader, he'll see the window of opportunity closing.  At 27, he needs to act soon, as his path this year or last (losing Roglic at the Tour) was made harder since Vingegaard was around to step up instead.  Geraint Thomas got his big opportunity when Froome couldn't win the Tour, and as his chief lieutenant who was still near the top of the GC, he was able to win a Tour. That win has let him stay as a potential leader ever since (despite Sky/Ineos continuing to add bigger names or prospects ahead of him (Bernal, Carapaz, Yates, Martinez, etc.), but Kuss isn't getting those shots.

I do wonder, though, if they just know they're gonna be happier and more successful in support roles.  

On another note, Nielsen Powless is creeping up the GC and is now in 12th.  He could crack the top 10 with a good ride & TT (there’s another TT still right?).  

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

On another note, Nielsen Powless is creeping up the GC and is now in 12th.  He could crack the top 10 with a good ride & TT (there’s another TT still right?).  

Yep - Sat is a TT, then Paris on Sun.

Top 10 would be sweet for almost anyone, for sure.

[Razors Edge ★]

Tomorrow, more fireworks!!!  Kuss and McNulty to the front for more fun   

 

[az_cyclist]

It will be interesting to see if Quinn Simmons does with Trek - Segagredo.  He has been prominent in a flat stage and a few times in the mountains.

Brandon McNulty's dad was at a rest stop on a brevet I was riding in February.   McNulty is young enough that he could get a lead role in a team.  At any rate , with LeMond it was his performance in the World's that got him on LaVie Claire (sp).  I would say something similar would have to happen with the current young American cyclists to get a shot as the lead cyclist on a team. 

[jsharr ★]

I am pretty sure Floyd Landis was wasted quite a few times while cycling

[Mr. Beanz]

To tell the truth,  I don't care if a cyclist is American or not. I just watch to see guys kick ass on the bike. 

I  watch the major tours just to watch.  I don't really pay much attention to who is American and who is not. 

........and to see who has the best drugs that year.😄

[groupw]

Last year, I think Kuss showed he needs some TT skills to be a true GC contender. If he can’t develop that, he will have to be content in a support role. 
I have been impressed with Powless this year. He seems to have found himself. 

[Kirby]

Is McNulty good enough at time trialing to be a leader?

[ChrisL]

2 hours ago, az_cyclist said:

It will be interesting to see if Quinn Simmons does with Trek - Segagredo.  He has been prominent in a flat stage and a few times in the mountains.

Brandon McNulty's dad was at a rest stop on a brevet I was riding in February.   McNulty is young enough that he could get a lead role in a team.  At any rate , with LeMond it was his performance in the World's that got him on LaVie Claire (sp).  I would say something similar would have to happen with the current young American cyclists to get a shot as the lead cyclist on a team. 

Valid point on Lemond but it was more than that. Winning the Jr World championships, several high placing in smaller stage races and a 3rd place in his first TDF behind Fignon & Hinault. Lemond was already a team leader with Renault Gitane when Bernard Tapie & Hinault lured him to La Vie Clair.

McNulty, Kuss, Powless & Simmons haven’t had that level of success to this point in their careers.

[Randomguy]

6 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Geraint Thomas got his big opportunity when Froome couldn't win the Tour, and as his chief lieutenant who was still near the top of the GC, he was able to win a Tour.

Well, where GT is at in the overall right now isn't so bad.  Plus, he can TT.

I like Kuss, but I am not so sure how he time trials.  If you can't do that and some other GC guys can, then you end up in NQ or Yates-land, putting on an impressive show and all and maybe hope to podium in the overall if chaos reigns and luck is with you.  Then again, some guys just have bad days from time to time.  McNulty I don't know enough about, but I think he TT's pretty well but not at the top of the heap.  I was glad for him today and was hoping he'd take the stage.

[Razors Edge ★]

14 hours ago, groupw said:

Last year, I think Kuss showed he needs some TT skills to be a true GC contender. If he can’t develop that, he will have to be content in a support role. 
I have been impressed with Powless this year. He seems to have found himself. 

 

14 hours ago, Kirby said:

Is McNulty good enough at time trialing to be a leader?

The challenge with being a super domestique is that for the TTs, you are told to go out there and stay safe & don't do anything stupid.  IOW, with a TT at stage 1, you can't go full gas, and for stage 20 TT, you're exhausted. Hard to get an accurate estimate of their TT abilities in a GT.  I do think they do well enough in the shorter 7 day races, which can sometimes be used as a proxy for whether they can do well on a longer GT.

[Kirby]

58 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

 

The challenge with being a super domestique is that for the TTs, you are told to go out there and stay safe & don't do anything stupid.  IOW, with a TT at stage 1, you can't go full gas, and for stage 20 TT, you're exhausted. Hard to get an accurate estimate of their TT abilities in a GT.  I do think they do well enough in the shorter 7 day races, which can sometimes be used as a proxy for whether they can do well on a longer GT.

He was a junior world time trial champion which doesn't always translate to the senior ranks, but he can't be too bad.

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, Kirby said:

He was a junior world time trial champion which doesn't always translate to the senior ranks, but he can't be too bad.

Yeah - I've seen him TT well in other races like the Dauphine. He seems to have a lot of talent.

[Randomguy]

I really don't know how these guys attack the crap out of each other in the mountains and then do it again the next day, then TT.  I could never recover like that, even when I was young, 4 days of hard riding in a row was about as much as I could do before I had to have an enjoyable spin instead.

I think they need drugs.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

I really don't know how these guys attack the crap out of each other in the mountains and then do it again the next day, then TT.  I could never recover like that, even when I was young, 4 days of hard riding in a row was about as much as I could do before I had to have an enjoyable spin instead.

There is a reason they're there, and you (and I) are not

But I notice, when I get the chance - like wife out of town or a week of great weather - that I tend to be fine going hard several days in a row but never have the chance to try that for three weeks straight.  My "hard" is 1/10th their hard, but still, I think it can work if you're in the right spot of your fitness arch - likely towards the end of the building phase, and rolling into the optimal phase, and just ending as your peak ends.  For the most part, that all seems to happen in about a three week window, before it is time to take it easy again.

[Randomguy]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

There is a reason they're there, and you (and I) are not

But I notice, when I get the chance - like wife out of town or a week of great weather - that I tend to be fine going hard several days in a row but never have the chance to try that for three weeks straight.  My "hard" is 1/10th their hard, but still, I think it can work if you're in the right spot of your fitness arch - likely towards the end of the building phase, and rolling into the optimal phase, and just ending as your peak ends.  For the most part, that all seems to happen in about a three week window, before it is time to take it easy again.

Wout the fuck just happened today?  Just finished watching the stage whilst I ate lunch, holy crap!

[ChrisL]

4 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Wout the fuck just happened today?  Just finished watching the stage whilst I ate lunch, holy crap!

The winner was crowned today.  Helluva ride!