jsharr ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 14, 2017 After DH cut ties with IMBA for their endorsing E bikes I began to wonder who was making e mountain bikes. Turns out Specialized, Trek, Giant, Scott, Cannondale all make E bikes. Shimano makes motors. Sram makes an E mtb component group. Where does the cutting ties start and stop? Is it even possible to ride a quality mountain bike made from components from manufacturers who are anti e bike ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #2 Posted November 14, 2017 Why would you cut ties with the future? Looking to ride the trails on a penny farthing? Or a boneshaker? Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #3 Posted November 14, 2017 Exercise needs to be a component of the future before we all turn into tree sloths. Are ebikes like mopeds, where you can pedal? If so, they might be excellent car replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted November 14, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 14, 2017 ebikes drive me nuts. For years we spent time fighting for access after motorized dirt bikes tore up trails and causing access to be closed. Now we are becoming them and fear it's going to lead to trail access being closed. A lot of the access was granted with the stipulation of no motorized vehicles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted November 14, 2017 Share #5 Posted November 14, 2017 38 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: Exercise needs to be a component of the future before we all turn into tree sloths. Are ebikes like mopeds, where you can pedal? If so, they might be excellent car replacements. 12 minutes ago, Indy said: ebikes drive me nuts. For years we spent time fighting for access after motorized dirt bikes tore up trails and causing access to be closed. Now we are becoming them and fear it's going to lead to trail access being closed. A lot of the access was granted with the stipulation of no motorized vehicles. These two points seem to be reasons for and against them. I see value in them as a car replacement to be used on city streets. However I dont want to see them on our trails. It will be interesting to see if they stick or are the latest "thing" in the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted November 14, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 14, 2017 Just now, ChrisL said: These two points seem to be reasons for and against them. I see value in them as a car replacement to be used on city streets. However I dont want to see them on our trails. It will be interesting to see if they stick or are the latest "thing" in the industry. Fat bike versions seem to be popular. Freaking LBS owner (I will not walk in that shop again) really promotes them as a way to get out on the trails in any weather and the ebike part makes it easy. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend_Maynard Posted November 14, 2017 Share #7 Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, jsharr said: After DH cut ties with IMBA for their endorsing E bikes I began to wonder who was making e mountain bikes. Turns out Specialized, Trek, Giant, Scott, Cannondale all make E bikes. Shimano makes motors. Sram makes an E mtb component group. Where does the cutting ties start and stop? Is it even possible to ride a quality mountain bike made from components from manufacturers who are anti e bike ? 2 completely different things. Manufacturers are just looking to make a profit, making what sells. Refusing to buy because someone makes e-bikes is like refusing to buy a MTB from a company that also makes road bikes. Some might do that, but not very many, and IMO that would be different than DHs tiff with IMBA. IMBA is a mountain bike advocacy group. Them advocating for e-bikes is the equivalent of them advocating for road bikes, and refusing to advocate for trails/conditions that are not accessible to road bikes. By including advocacy for e-bikes in their mission, they open the door for every adversary to shut mountain bikes out on the basis that they are motorized transport, since e-bikes are motorized and fall under the umbrella of "mountain bikes". Many/most believe that the only way for MTBs to win/keep rightful access to areas that only allow non-motorized transport is to be clear that e-bikes are not mountiain bikes and are not covered under the advocacy efforts of that organization. Fot those, e-bikes threaten access for ALL 2 wheeled users. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisL Posted November 14, 2017 Share #8 Posted November 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, Indy said: Fat bike versions seem to be popular. Freaking LBS owner (I will not walk in that shop again) really promotes them as a way to get out on the trails in any weather and the ebike part makes it easy. Ugh. OK here's a wrinkle.... What if the LBS owner relies on ebike sales to stay afloat? Seems it could be a catch 22 in what is selling now could also hurt sales with his more traditional customers. I'm not as passionate about the issue as some of you but I wouldn't avoid a shop because they were pushing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 14, 2017 To be clear, IMBA is not advocating or endorsing e-bikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #10 Posted November 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, ChrisL said: OK here's a wrinkle.... What if the LBS owner relies on ebike sales to stay afloat? Seems it could be a catch 22 in what is selling now could also hurt sales with his more traditional customers. I'm not as passionate about the issue as some of you but I wouldn't avoid a shop because they were pushing them. If that owner is reliying on ebike sales, he'd might as well hang up the closed permanently sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, jsharr said: Is it even possible to ride a quality mountain bike made from components from manufacturers who are anti e bike ? Probably have to be a SS with a Fox fork and Hayes brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #12 Posted November 14, 2017 Just now, smudge said: If that owner is reliying on ebike sales, he'd might as well hang up the closed permanently sign. Not true. We have a shop in town that rents and sells e-bikes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smudge ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #13 Posted November 14, 2017 Just now, dennis said: Not true. We have a shop in town that rents and sells e-bikes only. Ok. But keep them off the trails. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #14 Posted November 14, 2017 1 minute ago, smudge said: Ok. But keep them off the trails. Not sure how the two are related. Technically they are banned from trails here as well as the bike paths. I've never seen one on the trails, but I have on the bike paths and it is not enforced. They would be allowed on forest service roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #15 Posted November 14, 2017 27 minutes ago, ChrisL said: These two points seem to be reasons for and against them. I see value in them as a car replacement to be used on city streets. However I dont want to see them on our trails. It will be interesting to see if they stick or are the latest "thing" in the industry. I would have no problem if at sometime in the future this 71+ year old body had a bit of assist climbing hills on my trails. Ebikes are still like bikes if you want them to be. You pedal, you coast and sometimes the stoker kicks in and helps you pedal for a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #16 Posted November 14, 2017 E-bikes are everywhere around here. But then so are Teslas and Range Rovers. Mostly as commuters or cargo bikes. I think all five bike shops in town shops sell them, one exclusively. I've never seen one on a mt bike trail. I did ride a Cannondale that my friend bought. He's in his 70s and could not get up hills any longer. This kept him on a bike. It is an assist bike, you have to pedal for the motor to kick in. It is not a mt bike. I see a guy riding a e-cargo bike around town. I've never seen him pedal. My old neighbor had an e-fatbike. I don't know if he took it on the trails or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #17 Posted November 14, 2017 17 minutes ago, dennis said: E-bikes are everywhere around here. But then so are Teslas and Range Rovers. Mostly as commuters or cargo bikes. I think all five bike shops in town shops sell them, one exclusively. I've never seen one on a mt bike trail. I did ride a Cannondale that my friend bought. He's in his 70s and could not get up hills any longer. This kept him on a bike. It is an assist bike, you have to pedal for the motor to kick in. It is not a mt bike. I see a guy riding a e-cargo bike around town. I've never seen him pedal. My old neighbor had an e-fatbike. I don't know if he took it on the trails or not. So we haven't really defined which ebikes are good and which are bad then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted November 14, 2017 Share #18 Posted November 14, 2017 2 hours ago, ChrisL said: OK here's a wrinkle.... What if the LBS owner relies on ebike sales to stay afloat? Seems it could be a catch 22 in what is selling now could also hurt sales with his more traditional customers. I'm not as passionate about the issue as some of you but I wouldn't avoid a shop because they were pushing them. I've putting in years building and maintaining trails. So hard not to be a little more patient about the subject. The shop is primarily I high end road bike shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #19 Posted November 14, 2017 1 hour ago, maddmaxx said: So we haven't really defined which ebikes are good and which are bad then? The ones I don't like. Those are the bad ones. The ones I think a cool are the good ones. This isn't too tough Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #20 Posted November 14, 2017 I guess my point is that if one is anti e bikes on trails, where does the protest stop and start? If the e bikes were solely built to be path bikes, or street bikes and not mountian bikes, then it would not be much of an issue, as they would not be fun or useful to ride offroad. But when every major player in the MTB segment is building these e bike version of serious mountain bikes, then should not the consumer who does not want e bikes on the trails also cut off their support of the manufacturers as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #21 Posted November 14, 2017 54 minutes ago, jsharr said: I guess my point is that if one is anti e bikes on trails, where does the protest stop and start? If the e bikes were solely built to be path bikes, or street bikes and not mountian bikes, then it would not be much of an issue, as they would not be fun or useful to ride offroad. But when every major player in the MTB segment is building these e bike version of serious mountain bikes, then should not the consumer who does not want e bikes on the trails also cut off their support of the manufacturers as well? In this case, it starts and ends with IMBA. All of the big players are on board with the e-bikes. Small manufacturers are not making them, but Sram and Shimano are making parts. IMBA is looking to have a say. A place at the table of the e-bike discussion and decision process. e-bikes are here to stay. The question now is trail access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Totin Jack ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #22 Posted November 14, 2017 I don't get the hate on e-bikes. The e-mountain bikes I've seen are the Turbo Levo from Specialized. It's basically a full suspension mountain bike with pedal assist. The people buying and riding them aren't, for the most part, noobs who shouldn't be on mountain bike trails but are older riders, who for whatever reason, no longer have the stamina to ride the trails they once did while they were younger and fitter. The bikes generally start around $5,000 so they're not entry level machines. The hybrids that we sell are generally to commuters who use them to get to work and save, on average, an hour of commuting time per day. That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted November 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Old#7 said: I don't get the hate on e-bikes. The e-mountain bikes I've seen are the Turbo Levo from Specialized. It's basically a full suspension mountain bike with pedal assist. The people buying and riding them aren't, for the most part, noobs who shouldn't be on mountain bike trails but are older riders, who for whatever reason, no longer have the stamina to ride the trails they once did while they were younger and fitter. The bikes generally start around $5,000 so they're not entry level machines. The hybrids that we sell are generally to commuters who use them to get to work and save, on average, an hour of commuting time per day. That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy. Tossing E Trikes into the fray! Nicely played! everyone hates trikes and bents (Except for kirby and her trike, we love them both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #24 Posted November 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, Old#7 said: That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy. My wife BEOTCHES (justifiably) every time that guy rides drives by. Pretty silent, too. And way too big for the trail. We also have a couple of the full fairing recumbents that bother me, but at least those are human powered. I'm still fine as long as their percentages are single digit, but they are being adopted at a pretty quick pace so far. I will likely be calling for enforcement of the no motorized vehicles soon, but that includes the electric skateboards and scooters that I am seeing and that occasional Segway who parks at the Metro in the bike parking. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #25 Posted November 14, 2017 Man was never meant to go faster than he could run in bare feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted November 14, 2017 Share #26 Posted November 14, 2017 I just got this email from Performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #27 Posted November 14, 2017 35 minutes ago, Old#7 said: I don't get the hate on e-bikes. The e-mountain bikes I've seen are the Turbo Levo from Specialized. It's basically a full suspension mountain bike with pedal assist. The people buying and riding them aren't, for the most part, noobs who shouldn't be on mountain bike trails but are older riders, who for whatever reason, no longer have the stamina to ride the trails they once did while they were younger and fitter. The bikes generally start around $5,000 so they're not entry level machines. The hybrids that we sell are generally to commuters who use them to get to work and save, on average, an hour of commuting time per day. That's not to say I don't hate the guy on the trail with his Elf trike. He takes up the whole lane and goes faster than he should for the trail conditions. Fuck that guy. I don't hate e-bikes, but I do think we need to figure out where it is safe to ride them. There is a concern that they can tear up trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #28 Posted November 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, Road Runner said: I just got this email from Performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #29 Posted November 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, dennis said: I don't hate e-bikes, but I do think we need to figure out where it is safe to ride them. There is a concern that they can tear up trails. I'm just trying to figure out how folks who no longer can "keep up" on a bike trail are now somehow able to brake, swerve, and safely maneuver their 50+lbs bikes. Seems like that doesn't add up. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Totin Jack ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Share #30 Posted November 14, 2017 6 minutes ago, dennis said: I don't hate e-bikes, but I do think we need to figure out where it is safe to ride them. There is a concern that they can tear up trails. I didn't mean to imply that you did hate e-bikes. In my experience a lot of cyclists don't want them on the multi-use trails. For one, the reason the Tom just mentioned, lack of ability to control the bikes at the speeds they can reach. I haven't seen any studies that show that they tear up offroad trails any more than a standard mountain bike. Is this true or just a perception? I don't have a cat in this fight as I'm a roadie, just curious. I'll ask the shop mechanics, they're mountain bikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsharr ★ Posted November 14, 2017 Author Share #31 Posted November 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Old#7 said: I didn't mean to imply that you did hate e-bikes. In my experience a lot of cyclists don't want them on the multi-use trails. For one, the reason the Tom just mentioned, lack of ability to control the bikes at the speeds they can reach. I haven't seen any studies that show that they tear up offroad trails any more than a standard mountain bike. Is this true or just a perception? I don't have a cat in this fight as I'm a roadie, just curious. I'll ask the shop mechanics, they're mountain bikers. https://www.imba.com/news/eMTB-early-study-results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now