One of my ex-coworkers just died from Covid 19

[Wilbur ★]

2 hours ago, jsharr said:

My doctor had a relative die from covid.  Avid runner, in great shape.  Not vaccinated as I recall.

I keep telling my boys about all the people diying and they come up with arguments from internet research about why they should not.  I hate the internet.

Such an unpredictable virus.  I have seen very heavy unhealthy people emerge unscathed and very healthy people succumb.  There are valid reasons not to be vaccinated.  Being young and healthy isn't one of them.  

[jsharr ★]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

Such an unpredictable virus.  I have seen very heavy unhealthy people emerge unscathed and very healthy people succumb.  There are valid reasons not to be vaccinated.  Being young and healthy isn't one of them.  

Will you fly down here and talk some sense into my boys?  I suck.

[Wilbur ★]

Just now, jsharr said:

Will you fly down here and talk some sense into my boys?  I suck.

I did with my nephew and his friends.  Apparently they are willing to listen to an uncle and not a father.  

[jsharr ★]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

I did with my nephew and his friends.  Apparently they are willing to listen to an uncle and not a father.  

Thank you.  When should we expect you?

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, jsharr said:

Thank you.  When should we expect you?

I would come to Texas but there are too damn many unvaccinated there.   

[jsharr ★]

Just now, Wilbur said:

I would come to Texas but there are too damn many unvaccinated there.   

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, jsharr said:

Will you fly down here and talk some sense into my boys?  I suck.

It ain't easy, but in general, my house, my rules works.  Obviously, as the "adult", it isn't easy to swing kids to think like adults, but the one with needle-phobia may be convinced that not being in contact with the family until periods of isolation - 10 days? - is too high a price and opt in?  I'm not sure what regular vaxxes (or other things given by shot) have non-shot alternatives, so life is going to be full of needles for most folks

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Such an unpredictable virus.  I have seen very heavy unhealthy people emerge unscathed and very healthy people succumb.  There are valid reasons not to be vaccinated.  Being young and healthy isn't one of them.  

Got any scientific proof for the "valid reasons"?  All I hear is pseudo science and old wives tales.  As near as I can tell there is nothing meaningful out there that counters the national health emergency being suffered mostly because of unvaccinated people.  The real scientific evidence stack up for vaccination by orders of magnitude.

[MoseySusan]

My step-daughter and granddaughter both caught it and recovered after about a week. Both are vaccinated. 
Their schools in Phoenix keep sending people into quarantine because of being a close contact. Our youngest granddaughter started Montessori school the second week of August and has attended four days since then because someone in her class of 3-5 year olds keeps contracting covid. 

[Razors Edge ★]

10 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Got any scientific proof for the "valid reasons"?

CDC seems to point mainly towards allergies to the vaccine or ingredients in various vaccines.  They don't seem high hurdles to get over, though, for the most part.

Fear generally seems the biggest hurdle.  Fear can be stoked or dampened, and sadly, a group of folks in positions of influence choose to stoke fears for their own gains.

[Wilbur ★]

28 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Got any scientific proof for the "valid reasons"?  All I hear is pseudo science and old wives tales.  As near as I can tell there is nothing meaningful out there that counters the national health emergency being suffered mostly because of unvaccinated people.  The real scientific evidence stack up for vaccination by orders of magnitude.

Yes. 3 doctors advise my immunosuppressed wife against it.  

[ChrisL]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

It ain't easy, but in general, my house, my rules works.  Obviously, as the "adult", it isn't easy to swing kids to think like adults, but the one with needle-phobia may be convinced that not being in contact with the family until periods of isolation - 10 days? - is too high a price and opt in?  I'm not sure what regular vaxxes (or other things given by shot) have non-shot alternatives, so life is going to be full of needles for most folks

That’s pretty much how we approached it with our son.  He really wasn’t against the vaccine, he just wasn’t in a rush to go out & do it.

So my wife made him an appointment and we said get vaccinated or live somewhere else.  He got vaccinated. 

[Razors Edge ★]

26 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Yes. 3 doctors advise my immunosuppressed wife against it.  

Yeah - she should follow her doctors' advice.  CDC in the US feels differently for most folks with moderately to severely compromised immune systems even going so far as to suggest they receive additional boosters.  Obviously, her doctors know more about her specific condition, but the difference in suggestions does explain the wonderment some folks have over what the medical conditions are that warrant skipping the vaccination.

[Razors Edge ★]

31 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

That’s pretty much how we approached it with our son.  He really wasn’t against the vaccine, he just wasn’t in a rush to go out & do it.

So my wife made him an appointment and we said get vaccinated or live somewhere else.  He got vaccinated. 

Yeah, there are leverage points too - "then pay your own..." food bill, car/health insurance (ie go get your own policy), full room & board, your own internet/cell plan/cable tv,  or maybe "live only in the basement", etc.. 

I can't imagine either side wants to go that route so the irrational push against the reasonable thing (vaccine) goes up against the rational push of putting money where mouth is.

[12string]

1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

Got any scientific proof for the "valid reasons"?  All I hear is pseudo science and old wives tales.  As near as I can tell there is nothing meaningful out there that counters the national health emergency being suffered mostly because of unvaccinated people.  The real scientific evidence stack up for vaccination by orders of magnitude.

My SiL just finished chemo - no shot for her.    Compromised immune systems don't play well even with the mRNAs.  Meaning the part of society most in need of protection can only be protected if the rest of society protects the,.  But apparently, society doesn't care anymore.

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

CDC seems to point mainly towards allergies to the vaccine or ingredients in various vaccines.  They don't seem high hurdles to get over, though, for the most part.

Fear generally seems the biggest hurdle.  Fear can be stoked or dampened, and sadly, a group of folks in positions of influence choose to stoke fears for their own gains.

The number of people who have succumbed to anaphylactic shock because of the vaccine due to alergies is infinitesimal.

[maddmaxx ★]

1 hour ago, Wilbur said:

Yes. 3 doctors advise my immunosuppressed wife against it.  

OK.  That's one person.  What's the percentage of the population with that situation that makes it an excuse for so many people?

[Razors Edge ★]

4 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

The number of people who have succumbed to anaphylactic shock because of the vaccine due to alergies is infinitesimal.

Yep. I know I we had to wait for 30 mins at the pharmacy to account for that sort of difficulty.  Assuming folks get vaccinated and observed when getting the shots, it significantly lowers that risk almost to zero.  It's more a "fear" than anything else that keeps folks who are not known to be allergic to vaccines.

[Randomguy]

[12string]

31 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

The number of people who have succumbed to anaphylactic shock because of the vaccine due to alergies is infinitesimal.

.0017%, to be exact.

the people touting the (false) "COVID has a 99% survival rate" are refusing to get the vaccine because of the 99.9983% survival rate.

[Wilbur ★]

49 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

OK.  That's one person.  What's the percentage of the population with that situation that makes it an excuse for so many people?

Of course, but I didn't claim everyone had a valid reason, but some do. 

[KrAzY]

On 9/16/2021 at 2:46 PM, Road Runner said:

Anyone you know die from Covid?  

My aunt, and also my friends father. My aunt was not in good health, and main issue was double lung pneumonia before getting to hospital. They said she had covid, but she was bed ridden and never ventured out in 4 months.
  My friends father was in great health and fully vaccinated. Came home from a trip and ended up in the hospital

[maddmaxx ★]

15 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Of course, but I didn't claim everyone had a valid reason, but some do. 

The problem is that it's being used as an excuse by those who have no reason to use it as an excuse.  It's almost as bad as my cousin's uncle is left handed and shouldn't get the vaccine.  Your wife has a reason as explained to her by 3 real doctors, not a rent a doc or a dentist,  or a vet, or a dermatologist posing as an authority on vaccines.  Again, the number of valid immune compromised individuals is small.

In fact, for most, the CDC recommends not only the regular shots but and extra 28 days later.

Effective August 13, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that people who are moderately to severely immunocompromised receive an additional dose of an mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) at least 28 days after the completion of the initial mRNA COVID-19 vaccine series.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/immunocompromised.html

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

The problem is that it's being used as an excuse by those who have no reason to use it as an excuse.  It's almost as bad as my cousin's uncle is left handed and shouldn't get the vaccine.  Your wife has a reason as explained to her by 3 real doctors, not a rent a doc or a dentist,  or a vet, or a dermatologist posing as an authority on vaccines.  Again, the number of valid immune compromised individuals is small.

In fact, for most, the CDC recommends not only the regular shots but and extra 28 days later.

Effective August 13, 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends that people who are moderately to severely immunocompromised receive an additional dose of an mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) at least 28 days after the completion of the initial mRNA COVID-19 vaccine series.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/immunocompromised.html

The CDC has for all practical purposes, blown their credentials during covid.  You may remember, my wife has a form of blood cancer and treatment that is not compatible with covid vaccines.  So, CDC can eat shite as an authority on that one. 

[12string]

Just now, Wilbur said:

The CDC has for all practical purposes, blown their credentials during covid. 

Exactly.  All those Facebook Phd's made sure the CDC lost all their cred.  Same with that Fauci fraud, how did he EVER pass med school?  I mean, what real scientists changes their understanding just because they learn something new?

[KrAzY]

9 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The CDC has for all practical purposes, blown their credentials during covid.  You may remember, my wife has a form of blood cancer and treatment that is not compatible with covid vaccines.  So, CDC can eat shite as an authority on that one. 

do not forget now they are moving on from medical to fight gun violence. I think they should stick to one topic at a time
Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control, wants her agency to establish gun violence as an urgent public health crisis. "Now is the time — it's pedal to the metal time," she told CNN in a new interview.

[12string]

6 minutes ago, KrAzY said:

do not forget now they are moving on from medical to fight gun violence. I think they should stick to one topic at a time
Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control, wants her agency to establish gun violence as an urgent public health crisis. "Now is the time — it's pedal to the metal time," she told CNN in a new interview.

Of course, it's impossible for an organization that large to take on one public health problem at a time..........

[Road Runner]

IIRC, the CDC tried to extend the no-eviction policy, but got overruled by the courts.  They seem to want to expand their influence and power as much as possible.

[maddmaxx ★]

20 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The CDC has for all practical purposes, blown their credentials during covid.  You may remember, my wife has a form of blood cancer and treatment that is not compatible with covid vaccines.  So, CDC can eat shite as an authority on that one. 

I can't claim to be a medical expert, but the CDC is bad has gone about far enough IMO.  It's like Terry Schiavo and Bill Frist as far as I'm concerned.  In 99.5 percent of the cases the CDC is correct given the knowledge available at the time of their statement and the amount of political pressure put on their appointed bosses.

[12string]

An interesting stat I just happened upon.

The Covid vaccine that's killing so many people?   .0017% fatality rate.

Regular old prescription drugs: .075 fatality rate.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

10 minutes ago, KrAzY said:

do not forget now they are moving on from medical to fight gun violence. I think they should stick to one topic at a time
Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control, wants her agency to establish gun violence as an urgent public health crisis. "Now is the time — it's pedal to the metal time," she told CNN in a new interview.

Well, there you go.  Another excuse not to be vaccinated.

[12string]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

Well, there you go.  Another excuse not to be vaccinated.

considering the vaccines will kill about 4000/year  and guns kill 40,000, maybe they should move on to guns.

[Road Runner]

2 minutes ago, 12string said:

considering the vaccines will kill about 4000/year  and guns kill 40,000, maybe they should move on to guns.

Old age kills a whole lot more than guns.  They need to eradicate aging.

[12string]

2 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

They need to eradicate aging.

So  guns are the vaccine?

[maddmaxx ★]

What are the odds of survival for those already so immune compromised, that they dare not get the vaccine, should they catch Covid?

[Road Runner]

So the FDA just voted to provide boosters for those over 65 and those at high risk.  Six months after the second shot, so I'll be getting mine in a few weeks.  

[KrAzY]

And it looks like the booster shot is not recommended per the FDA.. 

[Road Runner]

3 minutes ago, KrAzY said:

And it looks like the booster shot is not recommended per the FDA.. 

It is for 65+ and those at high risk.  You youngsters are allowed to get it yet.  

[KrAzY]

1 minute ago, Road Runner said:

It is for 65+ and those at high risk.  You youngsters are allowed to get it yet.  

Have at it. If y’all start dropping, I’ll know it’s not safe 😂

[maddmaxx ★]

8 hours ago, KrAzY said:

And it looks like the booster shot is not recommended per the FDA.. 

Not entirely true.  It is recommended after 6 months for those in a high risk class. (including anyone over 65)

The reasoning behind it is not that it isn't good for you but rather that the shots belong more in western Africa than here.  More news to be twisted into something more desirable for those skipping the shots.

[Wilbur ★]

10 hours ago, KrAzY said:

And it looks like the booster shot is not recommended per the FDA.. 

No Fauci Ouchie for you!  

[Wilbur ★]

14 hours ago, 12string said:

So  guns are the vaccine?

They do cure everything. 

[Wilbur ★]

14 hours ago, 12string said:

considering the vaccines will kill about 4000/year  and guns kill 40,000, maybe they should move on to guns.

Some consider the idiot holding the gun to be at fault.  There may be something to that. 

[Wilbur ★]

15 hours ago, KrAzY said:

do not forget now they are moving on from medical to fight gun violence. I think they should stick to one topic at a time
Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the director of the Centers for Disease Control, wants her agency to establish gun violence as an urgent public health crisis. "Now is the time — it's pedal to the metal time," she told CNN in a new interview.

A whole lotta over-reach coming from the CDC these days.  

[KrAzY]

2 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

Not entirely true.  It is recommended after 6 months for those in a high risk class. (including anyone over 65)

The reasoning behind it is not that it isn't good for you but rather that the shots belong more in western Africa than here.  More news to be twisted into something more desirable for those skipping the shots.

It recommended because the government says it is. Yet not that long ago 16 to 2 voted against the shot.. a few hours later a magical number pops into their head of who can have it. WOW

 

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

No Fauci Ouchie for you!  

Have you noticed that this vaccines for the virus is getting 24/7 advertisements to remind people it exists. 
A real pandemic does not need a marketing campaign and endless propaganda…BUT what does… psychological operations and warfare. 

im not against science, I’m against government agendas, and something weird is going on. 

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, KrAzY said:

It recommended because the government says it is. Yet not that long ago 16 to 2 voted against the shot.. a few hours later a magical number pops into their head of who can have it. WOW

 

Have you noticed that this vaccines for the virus is getting 24/7 advertisements to remind people it exists. 
A real pandemic does not need a marketing campaign and endless propaganda…BUT what does… psychological operations and warfare. 

im not against science, I’m against government agendas, and something weird is going on. 

We need more research on treatment as Israel is pretty solid evidence the vaccines alone aren't the fix.  

[KrAzY]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

We need more research on treatment as Israel is pretty solid evidence the vaccines alone aren't the fix.  

I just heard last night that one of my old friends from the fire department lost her fully vaccinated husband to covid after a 14 day hospitalization in Ohio. 
he was healthy and no health  issues prior to any of this. 

[Wilbur ★]

14 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

What are the odds of survival for those already so immune compromised, that they dare not get the vaccine, should they catch Covid?

People in such circumstances should be accepting responsibility for themselves by limiting contact.  If they are told by 3 specialists the vaccine places you at high risk of permanent damage or death, there isn't much incentive to get it. 

[KrAzY]

11 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

We need more research on treatment as Israel is pretty solid evidence the vaccines alone aren't the fix.  

What I want is someone to really answer questions without trying to fight me on the topic when I bring up and argument for what they say... I want to have a TRUE debate with someone.. I can see both sides of it, but whomever I talk to is only one sided. 
 

[Wilbur ★]

1 minute ago, KrAzY said:

What I want is someone to really answer questions without trying to fight me on the topic when I bring up and argument for what they say... I want to have a TRUE debate with someone.. I can see both sides of it, but whomever I talk to is only one sided. 
 

Too late, the vaccines were politicized before they were even approved.  Everyone in my house is fully vaxxed.  I have had 3 and had the virus.  My wife's doctors have all advised her against it and we do distance for a few days when I get home from trips.  So, when "pro-vaxx and everyone else deserves to die" types claim there is only one solution, they lose me and can go straight to hell as the arguments are as political and stupid as the anti-vaxxers.