My plug-in Hybrid review

[Zephyr]

So as our Rav4 was over 10 years old we decided it was time for a new vehicle, and liking the Rav, we decided to go with the plug in hybrid version, the Rav4 Prime.  

We considered the regular Hybrid where it is electric under like 20mph then a hybrid above that, but with the area we live, other than school zones we really never drive that slow. We don't really have bumper to bumper traffic here. With the plug in version, the first 45 miles every day is full electric regardless of speed and then the motor kicks in to hybrid mode when the ev mode runs down.

We have had the car for 2 months now..., and with 1450miles on it now, we still had over quarter tank of gas from it coming full from the dealer.  And that includes a trip to Victoria (2 hrs away), a trip to another town and hour away and a weekend in Vancouver.  Basically we are driving an electric vehicle without the range anxiety because it is not very often we drive more than 45 miles a day.

It charges from empty to full in about 10 hours at home, out of a regular 110v outlet, no need for a fancy charger at home.  It will be interesting when we get our electricity bill for Sept and Oct and  compare it to last year and the year before that when we were running a hot tub but for sure it will be less than the $80-100 a week we were spending on gas this time last year

[Ralphie ★]

Thanks for the good review. I never really knew what the difference was with a plug in hybrid. That all sounds good to me. 

[Longjohn ★]

Let us know when the electric bill comes in. Charging off a 110 circuit sounds expensive. Can you run that car entirely on gas’s when the grid goes down?

[Ralphie ★]

7 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

Let us know when the electric bill comes in. Charging off a 110 circuit sounds expensive. Can you run that car entirely on gas’s when the grid goes down?

One of my favourite audio books was when this guy was being chased over the George Washington Bridge in his Prius on either gas or electric power alone, so it was a low speed chase.

[Longjohn ★]

4 minutes ago, Ralphie said:

One of my favourite audio books was when this guy was being chased over the George Washington Bridge in his Prius on either gas or electric power alone, so it was a low speed chase.

Any time I drove over the GW bridge it was always slow anyway.

[Ralphie ★]

2 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

Any time I drove over the GW bridge it was always slow anyway.

I've never been over it so I pictured low traffic.  Oops!  Not as funny with a traffic jam.

Maybe I was influenced by when my wife had to borrow an AMC Spirit when her Fuego was in the shop, and she could barely make it over the severely sloped Commodore Barry Bridge.

[Longjohn ★]

2 minutes ago, Ralphie said:

I've never been over it so I pictured low traffic.  Oops!  Not as funny with a traffic jam.

You need to drive over it sometime. It is a real experience. Try it in the morning just after the sun comes up. Choose whichever level you want.

[Zephyr]

41 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

Let us know when the electric bill comes in. Charging off a 110 circuit sounds expensive. Can you run that car entirely on gas’s when the grid goes down?

Yes, I can run it as gas with the push of a button

[Bikeguy]

1 hour ago, Zephyr said:

the Rav4 Prime.  

Nice...  

That's one of the cars on my short list for when we decided to trade our 2010 Subaru Forester.

Can you charge the car from a 240 volt outlet too?    That would be my plan.  I'd suspect it would cut the charge time down to maybe 5 hours at home. 

I had a 2005 Prius for 260K miles.  And I have a 2016 Prius at 85K miles.   I've never had any problems with the hybrid system.  

[Zephyr]

3 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Can you charge the car from a 240 volt outlet too? 

I believe so, but have not really dove that deep into it

[Dottleshead ★]

3 hours ago, Zephyr said:

So as our Rav4 was over 10 years old we decided it was time for a new vehicle, and liking the Rav, we decided to go with the plug in hybrid version, the Rav4 Prime.  

We considered the regular Hybrid where it is electric under like 20mph then a hybrid above that, but with the area we live, other than school zones we really never drive that slow. We don't really have bumper to bumper traffic here. With the plug in version, the first 45 miles every day is full electric regardless of speed and then the motor kicks in to hybrid mode when the ev mode runs down.

We have had the car for 2 months now..., and with 1450miles on it now, we still had over quarter tank of gas from it coming full from the dealer.  And that includes a trip to Victoria (2 hrs away), a trip to another town and hour away and a weekend in Vancouver.  Basically we are driving an electric vehicle without the range anxiety because it is not very often we drive more than 45 miles a day.

It charges from empty to full in about 10 hours at home, out of a regular 110v outlet, no need for a fancy charger at home.  It will be interesting when we get our electricity bill for Sept and Oct and  compare it to last year and the year before that when we were running a hot tub but for sure it will be less than the $80-100 a week we were spending on gas this time last year

But you have to use gas dammit!! Your masculinity is 100% correlated directly to your gas use. If you’re being fiscally responsible and helping your environment, you’re a wimp. Lackey. 🤣

[Dottleshead ★]

On a serious note we love our RAV4 hybrid. I’d buy another.

[JerrySTL ★]

I never understood why all hybirds aren't plug-in. Maybe it costs $1,000 more?

[Ralphie ★]

52 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

I never understood why all hybirds aren't plug-in. Maybe it costs $1,000 more?

It does seem like they should blend together. 

[Wilbur ★]

It goes very nicely with your uniform.   

[Kirby]

29 minutes ago, JerrySTL said:

I never understood why all hybirds aren't plug-in. Maybe it costs $1,000 more?

In some places, it's not practical to plug it in overnight.  My sister used to joke when people would suggest a plug in to her that it wasn't very practical to run the extension cord from her 6th floor apartment.   Even when I lived in California I was in an apartment complex.

[Ralphie ★]

4 hours ago, Longjohn said:

You need to drive over it sometime. It is a real experience. Try it in the morning just after the sun comes up. Choose whichever level you want.

Pass.  I will do that only when I have no other choice.  

[Kirby]

4 hours ago, Longjohn said:

You need to drive over it sometime. It is a real experience. Try it in the morning just after the sun comes up. Choose whichever level you want.

I always take the lower level going into NY.  The exit to the Henry Hudson Pkwy is more scary on the lower level, but there is less jostling for position to get on the bridge.  The upper level is a madhouse with so many lanes converging and everyone merging and cutting one another  off.  There is a crazy merge for the toll booths and then another crazy merge for the bridge lanes, and then you have to cross over to get to the HH exit.

[Bikeguy]

1 hour ago, Kirby said:

The upper level is a madhouse with so many lanes converging and everyone merging and cutting one another  off.  There is a crazy merge for the toll booths and then another crazy merge for the bridge lanes, and then you have to cross over to get to the HH exit.

Been there and done that once...     

 We were on vacation and drove to NYC (plus more than a few other places too)  Nope... I'm not doing that again.   We were leaving NYC at the worst time...   and we were on the upper level. 

[Further]

1 hour ago, Kirby said:

I always take the lower level going into NY.  The exit to the Henry Hudson Pkwy is more scary on the lower level, but there is less jostling for position to get on the bridge.  The upper level is a madhouse with so many lanes converging and everyone merging and cutting one another  off.  There is a crazy merge for the toll booths and then another crazy merge for the bridge lanes, and then you have to cross over to get to the HH exit.

Pittsburgh has the nicest drivers of any big city I've driven in.

In the wrong lane? Put your blinker on and slow down, somebody will let you in.

I haven't been up there for a while, hope it still holds true.

[Kirby]

41 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

Been there and done that once...     

 We were on vacation and drove to NYC (plus more than a few other places too)  Nope... I'm not doing that again.   We were leaving NYC at the worst time...   and we were on the upper level. 

Next time just drive north to the Tappan Zee/Mario Cuomo Bridge. There can be delays getting on the bridge, but no merging.  Much less stressful.

[Bikeguy]

2 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Next time just drive north

No worries... there won't be a next time.

I won't even drive into Chicago anymore (only 90 miles away) unless it is absolutely necessary.  It will need to be a VERY good reason.  Otherwise... not going to do that either.   I've found that I LOVE rural living.  

[dinneR ★]

8 hours ago, Longjohn said:

Let us know when the electric bill comes in. Charging off a 110 circuit sounds expensive. Can you run that car entirely on gas’s when the grid goes down?

Some friends of mine have had one for a few years now. They said no increase to their electric bill. 

It automatically switches over to the hybrid engine when the electric charge runs out.

[Zephyr]

4 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It goes very nicely with your uniform.   

Red is my colour

[Bikeguy]

9 hours ago, dinneR said:

17 hours ago, Longjohn said:

Can you run that car entirely on gas’s when the grid goes down?

It automatically switches over to the hybrid engine when the electric charge runs out.

Yep... that is the beauty of the design.  Most trips people make are rather short and the charged battery will provide all the power for the trip. Until it can't.   Then the computer runs the gas engine when needed.

In the hybrid mode, there are many times my Prius is going down the highway under battery power only.  You don't even notice that the gas engine is off for a while, even at 60 mph.  The gas engine starts and stops seamlessly by the computer. An incon is displayed on the computer screen when my Prius is in EV mode. 

I have 500+ miles of driving range per tank of gas. 10 gallons, is a big fill up for me.

[Bikeguy]

9 hours ago, dinneR said:

17 hours ago, Longjohn said:

Let us know when the electric bill comes in. Charging off a 110 circuit sounds expensive.

Some friends of mine have had one for a few years now. They said no increase to their electric bill. 

It would be interesting to record the actual amps used during the 10 hour change of the battery from a 120 volt outlet. 

The Toyota FAQ explains 120 volts will change the battery using 12 amps.  Worst case it would be 12 amps for the entire charge time. 

120 V X 12 amps = 1440 watts  or 1.44 kilowatts.  10 hours would be 14.4 kilowatt-hours per charge on your electric bill. That's assuming a full 12 amps for the entire charge time. I'm not sure that is s valid assumption, but worse case it could be.

14.4 kwh per charge vs my electric usage now several hundred kwh per month.  I may notice if I charge every night.  14.4 X 30 nights = 432 kwh per month for charging. 

 

[MickinMD ★]

19 hours ago, Zephyr said:

So as our Rav4 was over 10 years old we decided it was time for a new vehicle, and liking the Rav, we decided to go with the plug in hybrid version, the Rav4 Prime.  

We considered the regular Hybrid where it is electric under like 20mph then a hybrid above that, but with the area we live, other than school zones we really never drive that slow. We don't really have bumper to bumper traffic here. With the plug in version, the first 45 miles every day is full electric regardless of speed and then the motor kicks in to hybrid mode when the ev mode runs down.

We have had the car for 2 months now..., and with 1450miles on it now, we still had over quarter tank of gas from it coming full from the dealer.  And that includes a trip to Victoria (2 hrs away), a trip to another town and hour away and a weekend in Vancouver.  Basically we are driving an electric vehicle without the range anxiety because it is not very often we drive more than 45 miles a day.

It charges from empty to full in about 10 hours at home, out of a regular 110v outlet, no need for a fancy charger at home.  It will be interesting when we get our electricity bill for Sept and Oct and  compare it to last year and the year before that when we were running a hot tub but for sure it will be less than the $80-100 a week we were spending on gas this time last year

Super!  Thanks @Zephyr.  I looked at a couple plug-in Hybrids that only got 22 miles on electricity before going to the same mpg as the gasoline engine version of the same car.

I probably won't get a new car until around 2030 and hope there are big improvements then, but right now I'm figuring on a plug-in hybrid.

[Bikeguy]

The other question to answer is...  How much gas was not used and replaced by electricity?

19 hours ago, Zephyr said:

1450miles on it now,

There you go...  How many gallons of gas would your old car use for 1450 miles?    How much did that cost?

Or if you want to compare a RAV4 hybrid to the RAV4 Prime (the plug in version)  You could estimate the gas used for 1450 miles.  

In either case you would be using less gas.  Did you use less gas to justify the extra cost of the RAV4 Prime?  It may take a lot of miles to do that.  

[Zephyr]

1 hour ago, Bikeguy said:

Did you use less gas to justify the extra cost of the RAV4 Prime?

In our old Rav, we averaged about $100/ week in gas, so we would have saved roughly $1000 in gas since we bought it, minus the uptick in electricity.  TBH we talked about using less gas but really it was not the sole reason for going plugin.  Not running to the gas station every Sunday night to make sure my wife had a full tank to start her work week has been an added bonus.  

[Reverend_Maynard]

5 hours ago, Bikeguy said:

It would be interesting to record the actual amps used during the 10 hour change of the battery from a 120 volt outlet. 

The Toyota FAQ explains 120 volts will change the battery using 12 amps.  Worst case it would be 12 amps for the entire charge time. 

120 V X 12 amps = 1440 watts  or 1.44 kilowatts.  10 hours would be 14.4 kilowatt-hours per charge on your electric bill. That's assuming a full 12 amps for the entire charge time. I'm not sure that is s valid assumption, but worse case it could be.

14.4 kwh per charge vs my electric usage now several hundred kwh per month.  I may notice if I charge every night.  14.4 X 30 nights = 432 kwh per month for charging. 

The battery capacity is 18.1kwh, so it would take a bit longer than 10 hours, if it was empty.  But, it's not going to be empty every night, I wouldn't think.

[Zephyr]

1 hour ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

The battery capacity is 18.1kwh, so it would take a bit longer than 10 hours, if it was empty.  But, it's not going to be empty every night, I wouldn't think.

We have taken it to 0km three times now, and when you plug it in it says 11ish hours to fully charge.  When at 0km, it is still saying about 25% charge on the battery, as it still runs the electric at low speeds and reverse etc

[Reverend_Maynard]

On 10/22/2023 at 3:21 PM, Zephyr said:

We have taken it to 0km three times now, and when you plug it in it says 11ish hours to fully charge.  When at 0km, it is still saying about 25% charge on the battery, as it still runs the electric at low speeds and reverse etc

That makes sense that it would not let the battery get too low.  Lithium Ion batteries hate being run dry, and the way the car is designed, it needs the electrical propulsion available at all times.

[Bikeguy]

5 hours ago, Reverend_Maynard said:

That makes sense that it would not let the battery get too low. 

I'm sure when the battery charge gets below a specific threshold then the computer operates the car as a hybrid.   So the battery never gets too low.  

I've read that Toyota's car dashboard display shows a battery charge which people assume is 0 to 100%.    However the actual range of the charge difference for they hybrids is more like 40% to 80%.  They do that to extend the life of the batteries.   I'm sure that's why my 2005 Prius which I drove for 11 years and 261K miles still worked just fine.  Most of the time the battery is partially charged.   It's never drained of never charged to 100%.  

Toyota warns people (I wonder how many payed attention) you should NEVER run out of gas while driving a hybrid and keep driving.  I assume that will indeed cause the battery to go down to zero.  link