A question for people who post climbing stats

[Road Runner]

Just curious.  I live in flat country, so no hills, no climbing.  This is not meant to demean your "feet climbed" stat.  I do not have a high tech device on my bike, just an old style "computer".  

When you say that you climbed 2000 feet or whatever, does the device take into account downhill numbers as well?  IOW, if you climb 2000 feet and you descend 1000 feet, does the device say your overall climb was 2000 feet or 1000 feet?  I ask this because it seems like you could start at a given elevation and end at a much higher elevation and that ride would be much different from one that starts at a high elevation and ends much lower.  The descending ride might still have substantial uphill portions and "feet climbed" but would be much easier overall than the ascending ride.  Additionally, while climbing a 1000 feet may be a stat to be proud of, wouldn't the average gradient of the climb be the real determining factor of the difficulty of the ride? 

 

[Dirtyhip]

5 minutes ago, Road Runner said:

Just curious.  I live in flat country, so no hills, no climbing.  This is not meant to demean your "feet climbed" stat.  I do not have a high tech device on my bike, just an old style "computer".  

When you say that you climbed 2000 feet or whatever, does the device take into account downhill numbers as well?  IOW, if you climb 2000 feet and you descend 1000 feet, does the device say your overall climb was 2000 feet or 1000 feet?  I ask this because it seems like you could start at a given elevation and end at a much higher elevation and that ride would be much different from one that starts at a high elevation and ends much lower.  The descending ride might still have substantial uphill portions but would be much easier overall than the ascending ride.  Additionally, while climbing a 1000 feet may be a stat to be proud of, wouldn't the average gradient of the climb be the real determining factor of the difficulty of the ride? 

 

It is just total feel climbed.  If you start at 2000 and climb to 4000, you get 2000 ft.  Just like if you started at 4000 and climbed to 6000= 2000 ft climbed.  If you descend for a while, it does not subtract the ele.  I have Garmin devices.

Like you said not all rides are rated equal.  If you do a short ride that is 200 ft per mile, it feels hard.  We did a ride yesterday afternoon.  It was 1800 ft of climbing and we only ride 11 miles.  Steep.

[Square Wheels]

I almost always start and end a ride in the same place, so technically it's 0 for me.

I am getting ready for the Mt Washington century in a couple of weeks, so my coach is having me ride hills.

This was today's ride, some of these hills are just hills, a few are pretty hard.

[Longjohn]

I use my iPhone on Strava, my friend hauls his bike to the Lake Wilhelm trail and he used a Garmin device. He does one lap around the lake and loads his bike up and drives home. Garmin shows he rode 12.5 miles and climbed 1,500 feet.

i ride from my house ten miles away. Hills the whole way, then ride home. My Strava shows 32 miles with 1,300 feet of climbing. If I wasn’t so cheap I would buy a garmin.

[Zephyr]

I live in hill country.  A couple years ago I had to spend some time in the Prairies and was all exited about the miles and miles of flatness I was going to ride and how awesome it would be to not have to climb, so with great anticipation, I packed my bike.

what I learned from that trip?   I was wrong.  I often used the phrase "You can't suck  and blow at the same time".  It turns out the that when the wind blows, it sucks.  Gimme hills over 40 miles of headwind any day.  At least the hills let up now and then.

[Further]

I use Cyclemeter on my phone it tracks ascending & descending feet. What amuses me is that I start & end at the same point, and often have a few feet more of one or the other. Was there a sinkhole & my house sunk 3 feet ?

[ChrisL]

22 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

Gimme hills over 40 miles of headwind any day.  At least the hills let up now and then.

Agree 1000000000%

[Longjohn]

24 minutes ago, ChrisL said:

Agree 1000000000%

You were going the wrong direction.

[ChrisL]

2 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

You were going the wrong direction.

I was?

[Square Wheels]

53 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

I live in hill country.  A couple years ago I had to spend some time in the Prairies and was all exited about the miles and miles of flatness I was going to ride and how awesome it would be to not have to climb, so with great anticipation, I packed my bike.

what I learned from that trip?   I was wrong.  I often used the phrase "You can't suck  and blow at the same time".  It turns out the that when the wind blows, it sucks.  Gimme hills over 40 miles of headwind any day.  At least the hills let up now and then.

Some days you get both.  This years run up Mt Washington (it qualifies as a hill), once we broke the tree line, about halfway up, the headwind was at least 20, I heard as high as 40 mph.  THat was slightly demoralizing.

[Zephyr]

4 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Some days you get both.  This years run up Mt Washington (it qualifies as a hill), once we broke the tree line, about halfway up, the headwind was at least 20, I heard as high as 40 mph.  THat was slightly demoralizing.

This is why you are my hero.  That is an epic ride

[Square Wheels]

1 minute ago, Zephyr said:

This is why you are my hero.  That is an epic ride

So far, it was just the run.  In a few weeks there's a ride around it.  That's a little hilly, but nothing sustained for more than a mile or so.  It's 109 miles.  The ride up it is in August.  I'm 99% convinced I will not be doing it this year.  If I don't do it this year (the most fit I've ever been), I doubt I'll ever try it again.  This is weighing heavily on me.

[jsharr]

Hills are illegal in Texas except around Austin where the hippies are kept.

[Further]

A guy in Alabama was giving me directions, he described a highway overpass as a hill.

[jsharr]

16 minutes ago, Further said:

A guy in Alabama was giving me directions, he described a highway overpass as a hill.

Probably was a Texan

[Dottleshead]

1 hour ago, jsharr said:

Hills are illegal in Texas except around Austin where the hippies are kept.

Sounds about right.  All the remaining sheep and cows live out in the heat on the open range.  

 

 

It make sense.

[Razors Edge]

8 hours ago, Road Runner said:

Just curious.  I live in flat country, so no hills, no climbing.  This is not meant to demean your "feet climbed" stat.  I do not have a high tech device on my bike, just an old style "computer".  

When you say that you climbed 2000 feet or whatever, does the device take into account downhill numbers as well?  IOW, if you climb 2000 feet and you descend 1000 feet, does the device say your overall climb was 2000 feet or 1000 feet?  I ask this because it seems like you could start at a given elevation and end at a much higher elevation and that ride would be much different from one that starts at a high elevation and ends much lower.  The descending ride might still have substantial uphill portions and "feet climbed" but would be much easier overall than the ascending ride.  Additionally, while climbing a 1000 feet may be a stat to be proud of, wouldn't the average gradient of the climb be the real determining factor of the difficulty of the ride?

First off, as mentioned in other posts, it is "Elevation Gained" that is relevant. Clearly on a loop, elevation gained will always equal elevation loss.  A bike computer will generally be pretty accurate in those totals, but I know that stats can be affected by weather and signal, so it really is a bit of a best estimate number anytime you ride a route.

Cumulative gain is certainly a good general measurement of the difficulty of a ride, and, in the moment, grade is a great way to show how difficult a climb actually is.  Any good computer and app will have elevation stats, gradient info, and the profile of the ride to show how the ride played out over time.  Trumping it all, of course, is actual power during the ride. 

Below are two ~50 mile rides. Which do you think was more difficult?

  vs.  

Tom

[Road Runner]

21 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Which do you think was more difficult?

  Not sure if there is enough data shown to determine this.   

[Razors Edge]

1 minute ago, Road Runner said:

  Not sure if there is enough data shown to determine this.   

Does your town offer night school?

Tom

[Square Wheels]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

Does your town offer night school?

Tom

Now see, that's the snippy kind of crap you should have avoided.

Honestly, he's right.  From the small amount of data provided, there is no way to know which ride was harder.

Was the ride on the left a solo ride at 22 mph?  Was the ride on the right one with some crazy gears for climbing mountains and took you 5 hours?

[Road Runner]

48 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Now see, that's the snippy kind of crap you should have avoided.

Honestly, he's right.  From the small amount of data provided, there is no way to know which ride was harder.

Was the ride on the left a solo ride at 22 mph?  Was the ride on the right one with some crazy gears for climbing mountains and took you 5 hours?

Exactly.  Also, the ride on the left had less elevation, but suppose those climbs were at a huge gradient and the ones on the right were much smaller?  I would have much more trouble with steep hills than more long and gradual rises.  

[Longjohn]

And what if the person that did the ride on the left had polio and was pedaling with one leg?

 

this must be give Tom a hard time day.

[Razors Edge]

10 hours ago, Road Runner said:

Exactly.  Also, the ride on the left had less elevation, but suppose those climbs were at a huge gradient and the ones on the right were much smaller?  I would have much more trouble with steep hills than more long and gradual rises.   

Ah, but the question was "Which do you think..." NOT "which was..."  If, given two pieces of information (not 100% but more than nothing), folks ought to be able to apply some critical thinking and come to an answer - based on the information provided.

But, hey, if you want no general answers, and choose to evaluate each and every ride - stat by stat - then you must first correct your current situation of " I do not have a high tech device on my bike, just an old style 'computer' "!

With a fancy schmancy computer and accessories, you can research your own answers and conduct all sorts or testing to prove your suppositions.  Science and maths are fun!

But to put it really simple, which of these is tougher -> walking the stairs up and down a three story building or a four story building?  Sure, you can add all sorts of other variables to one but not the other and make the answer vague, but all things equal (since you only have the question's details), which answer would you "guess"?

Tom

 

[Prophet Zacharia]

14 hours ago, Road Runner said:

  Not sure if there is enough data shown to determine this.   

You can be sure if there was any grade greater than 7-8%, the poster would comment on it. 

Brasstown Blad is 4.9 Kms at an average grade of 10.9%, but the 20% section nearly ruined my knees.

Alpe D’huez is 13.8 Kms averaging 8.1% for a total climb of 1135 meters, but the stretch at 11% made me question my decision to bring my bike to France. Why I did it a second time is still a mystery to me.

[Prophet Zacharia]

20 hours ago, Zephyr said:

what I learned from that trip?   I was wrong.  I often used the phrase "You can't suck  and blow at the same time".  It turns out the that when the wind blows, it sucks.  Gimme hills over 40 miles of headwind any day.  At least the hills let up now and then.

For every uphill there is a downhill. For every headwind, there is another headwind.

although, for some hills, getting down can be as much of a challenge as going up. I had a friend who white knuckled every descent of our 5 Gap ride in Georgia, losing as much time on the descent as the slowest rider did on the climb. And getting off Brasstown Bald is a challenge to your rims and brake pads!

[Square Wheels]

8 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

You can be sure if there was any grade greater than 7-8%, the poster would comment on it. 

Possibly true.  My goal yesterday was to do hills for 4 hours.  There is an LBS "hill ride" I went and did.  I rode the loop 3 times.  Next weekend I need to do 5 hours of hills.  I'll do it at least 4 times.  There's a short section that is 15%.  That hurts, but it's only 1 minute - I timed it.  Lots of up and down. https://www.strava.com/activities/1686937648/

I've gone up the Mt Washington auto road 4 times now, 3 times on foot, 1 on bike.  It's an average of 12%, no flat spots.  I'll probably never do it by bike again. 

Am I bragging?  I don't think so.  I'll never win, I'll never win my age group, I'll probably never even place in the top 50% overall.  For me it's a personal journey.  If I do a 7.6 miles ride with an average of 12%, several sections of 15 and 18%, with a short finish of greater than 20%, I feel a little proud and yes, I will post those stats.  Since I'm not trying to impress anyone, I guess I should think a little more on why I post those numbers.  For instance, yesterday I listed the feet I climbed along with the miles I rode.  I suspect no one really cares about either, so maybe next week when I do 5 hours of hills and over 5k of climbing, I won't list the climbing part.  Who knows.

[Wilbur]

22 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

I almost always start and end a ride in the same place, so technically it's 0 for me.

I am getting ready for the Mt Washington century in a couple of weeks, so my coach is having me ride hills.

This was today's ride, some of these hills are just hills, a few are pretty hard.

Interesting circuit.  How many repeats? 

[Square Wheels]

15 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Interesting circuit.  How many repeats? 

It takes about 15 minutes to get to the hills, then I did three repeats.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2833218943

[Razors Edge]

5 hours ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

You can be sure if there was any grade greater than 7-8%, the poster would comment on it. 

Brasstown Blad is 4.9 Kms at an average grade of 10.9%, but the 20% section nearly ruined my knees.

Alpe D’huez is 13.8 Kms averaging 8.1% for a total climb of 1135 meters, but the stretch at 11% made me question my decision to bring my bike to France. Why I did it a second time is still a mystery to me.

Yep - if a climb is sustained over 7%, it deserves to be mentioned.  I regularly post rides with sections that are tough and double digit , but since they are only a minute or two before a flatter section, and they usually average out much lower (maybe 5%), it would be odd to point it out too much.  Also, like SW, I ride to most hill starts, so for my regular one, that's 18+ miles out, hill, hill, hill, 18+ back, so it is not really too much to talk about in the aggregate.

But from a posting elevation gained in the miles threads, I really only do it if 1) I remember, and 2) I was doing a hill focused ride.

And regarding Alpe d'Huez, the first time I rode it, we ended the climb in snow! It was late June!  A week later, I climbed Alpe d'Huez in 100* temps and at the end of a 117mile ride (and with another HC and a 2nd cat cimb before it). THAT made me question WTF I was doing.  I also cried a bit

Tom

[Zephyr]

17 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

And regarding Alpe d'Huez, the first time I rode it, we ended the climb in snow! It was late June!  A week later, I climbed Alpe d'Huez in 100* temps and at the end of a 117mile ride (and with another HC and a 2nd cat cimb before it). THAT made me question WTF I was doing.  I also cried a bit

Tom

You have ridden Alpe d'Huez.  Twice.  You are now officially my forum crush.  Sorry Wheels, you still rock, but c'mon.  He did It twice.

I have not done any epic climbs.  The closest I have come is Hurricane Ridge in Port Angela's WA state.  It is only 6 % grade, but it is constant of 18 miles with no breaks.

[Wilbur]

My stats are descending.. Like count is way down.  Whatever are even down.  Hey, where is cheese?

 

[Razors Edge]

9 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

You have ridden Alpe d'Huez.  Twice.  You are now officially my forum crush.  Sorry Wheels, you still rock, but c'mon.  He did It twice. 

I have not done any epic climbs.  The closest I have come is Hurricane Ridge in Port Angela's WA state.  It is only 6 % grade, but it is constant of 18 miles with no breaks.

So did @Prophet Zacharia !  He might have even done it quicker.

Tom

[Zephyr]

2 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

So did @Prophet Zacharia !  He might have even done it quicker.

Tom

I salute you both.  That is awesome of both of you.  

[Square Wheels]

1 hour ago, Zephyr said:

You have ridden Alpe d'Huez.  Twice.  You are now officially my forum crush.  Sorry Wheels, you still rock, but c'mon.  He did It twice.

Sorry, it ain't no Mt Washington.  ?

[Razors Edge]

12 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Sorry, it ain't no Mt Washington.  ?

Yay! I'm happy to hear you are tackling it again this year! ?

Tom

[Square Wheels]

11 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Yay! I'm happy to hear you are tackling it again this year! ?

Tom

Only if you and @Zephyr ride it with me.

[Zephyr]

I would love to ride this with you, but this year I would crash and burn.  If I end up transferring back east so the logistics are so much easier for me to get there, I am in.

[Wilbur]

19 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

 If I end up transferring back east

WUT???????

[Zephyr]

You never know..., I am one failed medical from not diving anymore

[Wilbur]

5 minutes ago, Zephyr said:

You never know..., I am one failed medical from not diving anymore

Yeah, me as well but I don't live in the nicest place on earth!  

[Zephyr]

But if I have to go back on the road, Maritimers are way better to deal with than the idiots out here

[Razors Edge]

11 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Only if you and @Zephyr ride it with me.

You have an extra entry ticket??? And is this part of the deal?

And, seriously, if it wasn't so far away, I would LOVE to give it a shot.  But any ride where the drive is longer than the actual event is tough to fit into a weekend

Tom