Airehead Posted October 10, 2021 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2021 They say weather but why are the numbers less for other carriers? See new Tweets Conversation Southwest Airlines @SouthwestAir ATC issues and disruptive weather have resulted in a high volume of cancellations throughout the weekend while we work to recover our operation. We appreciate your patience as we accommodate affected Customers, and Customer Service wait times are longer than usual. (1/2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2021 Good question. There’s no shame in blaming a staff shortage so no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airehead Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted October 10, 2021 Southwest has canceled 1,018 Sunday flights as of 2 p.m. ET, according to flight tracker FlightAware. That's 28% of the the airline's scheduled flights and the highest of any U.S. airline by a wide margin. American Airlines has canceled 63 flights, or 2% of its operation, while Spirit Airlines canceled 32 flights, or 4% of its flights, according to FlightAware. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #4 Posted October 10, 2021 Labour shortages as unvaccinated push back against mandatory vaccination. Walking off the job. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffJim Posted October 10, 2021 Share #5 Posted October 10, 2021 21 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Labour shortages as unvaccinated push back against mandatory vaccination. Walking off the job. This. Mainstream media reluctant to discuss. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #6 Posted October 10, 2021 Oh wait........I thought it was trips to the south west. Now I have no explanation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #7 Posted October 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, BuffJim said: This. Mainstream media reluctant to discuss. I don’t disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Totin Jack ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #8 Posted October 10, 2021 Shitheads on a plane. Too many disruptive passengers these days. Passenger safety now requires jui jutsui training and use of duck tape for restraint. Eff that; I’d rather drive. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dottleshead ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #9 Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Old No. 7 said: Shitheads on a plane. Too many disruptive passengers these days. Passenger safety now requires jui jutsui training and use of duck tape for restraint. Eff that; I’d rather drive. You and me both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airehead Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share #10 Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, BuffJim said: This. Mainstream media reluctant to discuss. So let’s blame it on the weather that other carries in the same regions are not having. Brilliant! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted October 10, 2021 Share #11 Posted October 10, 2021 My daughters flight from Charlotte to Baltimore was just canceled. She was told the soonest she could get a flight home was Wednesday. She is looking into rental cars, but I'm not optimistic about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 10, 2021 Share #12 Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Airehead said: So let’s blame it on the weather that other carries in the same regions are not having. Brilliant! When Alpa comes out and says it is not organized, it is generally just sick call-ins. Weather sounds good though.. Move along, nothing to see here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted October 11, 2021 Share #13 Posted October 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Airehead said: So let’s blame it on the weather It's my understanding if the 'problem' is 'weather related' then the airline doesn't get dinged on its performance and service metrics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 11, 2021 Share #14 Posted October 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: It's my understanding if the 'problem' is 'weather related' then the airline doesn't get dinged on its performance and service metrics. That may be what they are citing but the ALPA notice says something quite different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted October 11, 2021 Share #15 Posted October 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Wilbur said: the ALPA notice I think the commercial passenger airline industry is going to the dogs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickinMD ★ Posted October 11, 2021 Share #16 Posted October 11, 2021 According to my flight-attendant nephew, who hopes to get a job with Southwest after he turns 21 on Dec. 28th and when flight numbers increase, it's a combination of a lack of crew and a lack of enough passengers on some flights although the Airlines will never admit the latter. Right now, he's working for Mesa Airlines but is being assigned a lot of American and United flights, even though he's under their 21 age rule for their own attendants, because those airlines are short of attendants and Mesa is being paid a premium to provide attendants: Ryan owns United, American, and Mesa uniforms. Ryan's young, vaccinated, already had COVID in the Spring of 2020 with very mild symptoms, and isn't strongly worried about catching it. But a lot of flight attendants are not vaccinated or are worried - Ryan's training by Mesa in Arizona took a week longer than it should have because three trainees came down with COVID and 13 of the remaining 27 were NOT vaccinated. All major airlines except Delta have mandated employee vaccinations as have many airports and thousands of employees are in line to be fired by the end of November who won't do it. It's so sad that many, like my unvaccinated cousin who now has COVID, who saw her mother and two cousins die of COVID, don't want "mRNA running around in my body" and would rather take the chance of COVID RNA being injected into their body's cells! Yet if you ask them what mRNA is or how the vaccine works, they can't tell you! And this resistance is despite the examples that Trump and all - or almost all - GOP got the vaccine - most or all the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines - and urged people to get it! That so many resist getting vaccinated is beyond my ability to comprehend. 40% each year not getting the flu shot surprises me, but the very low death rate from otherwise healthy people helps explain it coupled with the lies about mercury in vaccines causing autism, even though it's in a less-absorbable form and less than what's in two cans of tuna fish. Not so with Delta COVID: it kills and the vaccines don't contain any mercury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 11, 2021 Share #17 Posted October 11, 2021 It is labor action against mandated vaccines. Crews are calling in sick. Nothing more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 11, 2021 Share #18 Posted October 11, 2021 19 hours ago, BuffJim said: This. Mainstream media reluctant to discuss. Fox, CNN, and NPR are all covering it. That seems pretty mainstream. All three mentioned vaccine mandate as a potential cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #19 Posted October 12, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #20 Posted October 12, 2021 34 minutes ago, Wilbur said: You're better than this. This is a crock of shit and you know it. This is not an amazing moment as the U.S. Freedom Flyer stated. When has a pilot been called a criminal or terrorist for opposing a vax mandate? There were virtually no facts in this piece. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' " She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #21 Posted October 12, 2021 33 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Here's a compromise. Let the U.S. Freedom Flyers skip the vaccine, but agree that if they get covid, they pay 100% of their medical costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #22 Posted October 12, 2021 13 hours ago, Wilbur said: It is labor action against mandated vaccines. Crews are calling in sick. Nothing more. That can’t be! I heard an ALPA guy say it wasn’t! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #23 Posted October 12, 2021 16 hours ago, Wilbur said: It is labor action against mandated vaccines. Crews are calling in sick. Nothing more. Rebuild the industry without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #24 Posted October 12, 2021 49 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: Rebuild the industry without them. That would require experience and the only way to achieve that would be legal immigration of experienced flight crew. Then there would be the scab issues. Remember Ansette Airlines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #25 Posted October 12, 2021 7 hours ago, denniS said: You're better than this. This is a crock of shit and you know it. This is not an amazing moment as the U.S. Freedom Flyer stated. When has a pilot been called a criminal or terrorist for opposing a vax mandate? There were virtually no facts in this piece. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye Just read U.S. District Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil's opinion, leaning heavily on the arguments of Fox's lawyers: The "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' " She wrote: "Fox persuasively argues, that given Mr. Carlson's reputation, any reasonable viewer 'arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism' about the statement he makes." I am not an MSM fan at all but that is the sentiment in the industry and what the shutdowns are all about. Not weather, not poor planning or scheduling. It is simply pushback against mandated vaccines. It is 100% political. This piece made that point. Crippling the economy with this will be a political bomb and Carlson knows this. Carlson is no more credible than Maddow or Lemon/ Cuomo. All political theatrics, all the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #26 Posted October 12, 2021 44 minutes ago, Wilbur said: That would require experience and the only way to achieve that would be legal immigration of experienced flight crew. Then there would be the scab issues. Remember Ansette Airlines? No job. No unemployment. Minds change. The lines for vaccinations for state workers are getting longer in CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #27 Posted October 12, 2021 37 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: No job. No unemployment. Minds change. The lines for vaccinations for state workers are getting longer in CT. No rights. <<< That is at the root of it. In Canada, Federal workers or workers who operate under federal laws are required to be vaccinated. We lack the rights the US has so we have very high compliance in the sectors where laws are enforced. I just looked at US Freedom Flyers site and that is the repeated theme. Freedom and rights. My point is not to be political and start a bitchfest of old men again. Nor is it uphold FOX as the arbiter of truth. It is simply to say, weather isn't the cause of Southwests service outages. @Mick, you nephew needs to learn to stay quiet on some issues. Canceling flights due to load factors is illegal. I wouldn't be talking about that. We all know it happens, but that is never the reason given. Blame the Weather or mechanical or duty day but never cite load factors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #28 Posted October 12, 2021 I find it a little disturbing that the alpa spokesmen just flat out denies it is an unofficial sick call out. Sort of destroys credibility. And I don’t understand why people can’t accept that we do this for polio and mmr so it is nothing new. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airehead Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share #29 Posted October 12, 2021 keeping this a thread that ignores the politics-- how are people getting home? What happened to @Further's daughter? Where is she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #30 Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Airehead said: keeping this a thread that ignores the politics-- how are people getting home? What happened to @Further's daughter? Where is she? Thankfully my daughter and husband usually fly United and they just made it home from Montana. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #31 Posted October 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Wilbur said: Remember Ansette Airlines? Nope! But I bet the internet does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Zacharia Posted October 12, 2021 Share #32 Posted October 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, Airehead said: how are people getting home? This. I find it difficult empathize with airline employees who are taking their work grievance issues out in a manner that would directly harm the traveling public. No wonder the pilots’ union is denying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #33 Posted October 12, 2021 18 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said: Thankfully my daughter and husband usually fly United and they just made it home from Montana. I didn't realize you had a husband. I need to stop hitting on you, and let you keep your marriage intact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Further Posted October 12, 2021 Share #34 Posted October 12, 2021 19 minutes ago, Philander Seabury said: Thankfully my daughter and husband usually fly United and they just made it home from Montana. My daughter was able to get a rental car and drove herself home She was lucky in that her uncle lives near Charlotte, and has a neighbor who works for Enterprise, looking for a car on our own we had no luck, but a call to the neighbor got her behind the wheel of a Challenger. Helps to have friends in high places And you never know where the high place is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #35 Posted October 12, 2021 48 minutes ago, Further said: My daughter was able to get a rental car and drove herself home She was lucky in that her uncle lives near Charlotte, and has a neighbor who works for Enterprise, looking for a car on our own we had no luck, but a call to the neighbor got her behind the wheel of a Challenger. Helps to have friends in high places And you never know where the high place is Yeah, Steve Martin totally blew it trying to rent a car in planes, trains, and automobiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #36 Posted October 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Wilbur said: I am not an MSM fan at all but that is the sentiment in the industry and what the shutdowns are all about. Not weather, not poor planning or scheduling. It is simply pushback against mandated vaccines. It is 100% political. This piece made that point. Crippling the economy with this will be a political bomb and Carlson knows this. Carlson is no more credible than Maddow or Lemon/ Cuomo. All political theatrics, all the time. Nobody quoted Maddow or CNN etc. I don't watch any of them. I get that it is a sick out. Neither side can admit it. Southwest blames the weather, the pilot's union is blaming IT. Let the anti-vaxers pay their own way. Put your money where your mouth is. Agree to weekly testing and 100% of medical costs if you get covid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikeguy Posted October 12, 2021 Share #37 Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, denniS said: Agree to weekly testing and 100% of medical costs if you get covid. Maybe they already had covid and are immune for a while yet. Hmm... so another mandate? I don't like paying high insurance rates for obese people. Maybe, the insurance rates should be based on BMI index, and/or how many steps you can climb before your HR is over 120. How long before there are protests about that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #38 Posted October 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bikeguy said: Maybe they already had covid and are immune for a while yet. Hmm... so another mandate? I don't like paying high insurance rates for obese people. Maybe, the insurance rates should be based on BMI index, and/or how many steps you can climb before your HR is over 120. How long before there are protests about that? They are. At least for life insurance where you have to get a physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #39 Posted October 12, 2021 Flu shots were mandatory for womaxx before she was allowed into an infusion center for chemo treatment. They were for me too if I wanted to go in with her. Yes, we had the right not to get the shot. Of course that meant no entry to the chemo infusion center as the other patients had rights too. I still don't understand this situation at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted October 12, 2021 Share #40 Posted October 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: Flu shots were mandatory for womaxx before she was allowed into an infusion center for chemo treatment. They were for me too if I wanted to go in with her. Yes, we had the right not to get the shot. Of course that meant no entry to the chemo infusion center as the other patients had rights too. I still don't understand this situation at all. I think it isn't one really about the "right" thing to do (that's to be vaxxed if possible), but more along the perceived my "rights" argument. It becomes political fast as that's a path to power for some (and a path to ruin for many). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #41 Posted October 13, 2021 12 hours ago, denniS said: Nobody quoted Maddow or CNN etc. I don't watch any of them. I get that it is a sick out. Neither side can admit it. Southwest blames the weather, the pilot's union is blaming IT. Let the anti-vaxers pay their own way. Put your money where your mouth is. Agree to weekly testing and 100% of medical costs if you get covid. I agree. I am quad vaxed. I believe in pharma. Not so much the government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #42 Posted October 13, 2021 15 hours ago, Philander Seabury said: Thankfully my daughter and husband usually fly United and they just made it home from Montana. Even better! They flew Delta and he brought me a can of Sweetwater Hazy IPA, the official beer of Delta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #43 Posted October 13, 2021 23 minutes ago, Wilbur said: I agree. I am quad vaxed. I believe in pharma. Not so much the government. Quad vaxed? I didn’t know that was a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted October 13, 2021 Share #44 Posted October 13, 2021 16 hours ago, Philander Seabury said: And I don’t understand why people can’t accept that we do this for polio and mmr so it is nothing new. I think what may be different is the lack of controversy associated with the polio and MMR vaccines. The process for bringing those vaccines to the public was more traditional, and - regrettably - the medical and science communities were held in higher regard. The information shared with the public about those vaccines was consistent, and so the public found the vaccines and the process trustworthy. The rollout with the covid vaccines has been charged politically from the first. Health officials espoused a view one day, then later reversed themselves without substantive justification. For nearly every study there's a counter study. People perceive the information is not consistent and reliable because the science and medical communities are divided and vacillating. The end result is portions of the public don't trust what they're told. Add mandates to a situation where trust is already tenuous and the reluctant only entrench because the mandates do not reassure them or alleviate any of their concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #45 Posted October 13, 2021 Maybe polio was more fearsome too. From what little I know, it was like a certain trip to an iron lung, whereas with covid you can rolls your dice and takes your chances. Covid is fearsome enough to get my attention though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #46 Posted October 13, 2021 30 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: I think what may be different is the lack of controversy associated with the polio and MMR vaccines. The process for bringing those vaccines to the public was more traditional, and - regrettably - the medical and science communities were held in higher regard. The information shared with the public about those vaccines was consistent, and so the public found the vaccines and the process trustworthy. The rollout with the covid vaccines has been charged politically from the first. Health officials espoused a view one day, then later reversed themselves without substantive justification. For nearly every study there's a counter study. People perceive the information is not consistent and reliable because the science and medical communities are divided and vacillating. The end result is portions of the public don't trust what they're told. Add mandates to a situation where trust is already tenuous and the reluctant only entrench because the mandates do not reassure them or alleviate any of their concerns. Let's be honest about this. The majority of unvaccinated people are not following science, the CDC, or the advice of their own family doctor. The majority of the unvaccinated are getting their information from BS on social media, the tinfoil hat brigade, and other idiots on TV. I do believe there is a small percentage of unvaccinated who are like you described, but it's less than 1%. If anyone has a question about whether they should get the vaccine, they should talk to their own doctor who understands their medical history. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #47 Posted October 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: I think what may be different is the lack of controversy associated with the polio and MMR vaccines. The process for bringing those vaccines to the public was more traditional, and - regrettably - the medical and science communities were held in higher regard. The information shared with the public about those vaccines was consistent, and so the public found the vaccines and the process trustworthy. The rollout with the covid vaccines has been charged politically from the first. Health officials espoused a view one day, then later reversed themselves without substantive justification. For nearly every study there's a counter study. People perceive the information is not consistent and reliable because the science and medical communities are divided and vacillating. The end result is portions of the public don't trust what they're told. Add mandates to a situation where trust is already tenuous and the reluctant only entrench because the mandates do not reassure them or alleviate any of their concerns. Is it possible that this situation has a great deal to do with the internet and it's ability to convey real time decisions (and the changes that take place in the understanding of complicated events by researchers) rather than the slower methods and access to news of days gone by. In other words are people having difficult separating reality from crap? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prophet Zacharia Posted October 13, 2021 Share #48 Posted October 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, maddmaxx said: In other words are people having difficult separating reality from crap? It’s worse than just information overload, it’s that certain media platforms reaffirm people’s already held opinions and flood them with similar information and connections with like-minded people. Yes, Web-MD made everyone an instant-fucking-expert, but put those people in an echo chamber and you end up with demands for malaria and parasite treatments for a viral infection. Or, in other countries, drinking camel urine. Johnson & Johnson vaccines should be hugely in demand for people who claim they don’t trust the technology of the mRNA vaccines. Especially now that with a booster the protection matches that of the 2-dose mRNA forms. But it won’t be, at least in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted October 13, 2021 Share #49 Posted October 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Philander Seabury said: Quad vaxed? I didn’t know that was a thing! Had COVID, 3 vaccines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizeye Posted October 13, 2021 Share #50 Posted October 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: I think what may be different is the lack of controversy associated with the polio and MMR vaccines. The process for bringing those vaccines to the public was more traditional, and - regrettably - the medical and science communities were held in higher regard. The information shared with the public about those vaccines was consistent, and so the public found the vaccines and the process trustworthy. I suspect it was the lack of internet in the instant "information" age as limited to the local newspaper and 3 TV networks. One of my earliest memories when I was 4, vaguely the train trip and being on stage with the large TV cameras and some crazy man (Jerry Lewis) hyper jumping around then patting my younger sister and myself on the head while stating "These poor children lost their dad to polio, give money to fight this terrible disease." What I do remember after returning home, the entire city of Jacksonville was apparently in a panic and the Health Department (needlessly) quarantined us. Being restricted to home when doing nothing wrong is really my earliest memory. The vaccine was discover 6 months later and I was considered high risk. Also, it is my mom that relayed that was Jerry Lewis, but nothing supports that has he began the MD telethons that he is known for a few years earlier. Polio was the original cause for the March of Dimes, so if he was their guest host on a televised fundraiser, I have no idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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