Olympic observations

[pedalphile]

So-called moghuls are even more boring than curling, hard to believe, but true.

biathlon excellent

Die winds, let’s see some downhill.

[Wilbur ★]

I think the Koreans that competed were actually Korean though.  

[pedalphile]

5 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I think the Koreans that competed were actually Korean though.  

Yes. They’ve made a career out of it.

[Wilbur ★]

Freestyle: Kingsbury beatable, says Australia's Graham

Nope!  

[bikeman564™]

40 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

So-called moghuls are even more boring than curling, hard to believe, but true.

biathlon excellent

Die winds, let’s see some downhill.

there's a lot more boring than curling

[Kirby]

3 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I think the Koreans that competed were actually Korean though.  

Well  the South Korean ice dancers are both from the US - although they provided one of the highlights so far when Yura Min very deftly handled a wardrobe malfunction during the short dance. 

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Kirby said:

Well  the South Korean ice dancers are both from the US - although they provided one of the highlights so far when Yura Min very deftly handled a wardrobe malfunction during the short dance. 

I've never been a fan of this sort of "move to where you can be on the team" sort of thing.  I know there is a US woman on the Mexican team now (Sarah Schleper).  We have lots of folks who have come from other countries and made the US team, so it's not like we don't profit from the process. It does seem, though, in the US case it would be tougher to make a US team than an Estonian or a Moroccan or the Costa Rican team. Probably team size and invites of some sort play into it?

------------------------------------

Schleper also competed in four Winter Olympics, earning her best finish of tenth in the slalom event at Turin in 2006. Schleper was named to the US team for the 2010 Winter Olympics in late 2009. Schleper announced her retirement shortly before competing in her last world cup slalom on December 29, 2011 in Lienz, Austria. In her career spanning a total of 15 years, she took part in 186 World Cup races and achieved 4 podium finishes and one victory.

...

Schleper plans to compete at the 2018 Winter Olympics. Her Olympic effort is self-funded. She represents one of two athletes for Alpine Mexico, the other being Rodolfo Dickson.

Tom

[Kirby]

In skating at least, it's often easier to make it from a different country, but you still have to meet minimum levels to qualify for the Olympics.  In the case of the Korean ice dancer, her parents emigrated from South Korea and she had citizenship.  I don't believe her partner had any connections but he applied and met the requirements for citizenship. But they had to qualify to earn one of the available spots. In some cases, it does just look like country shopping, but in other cases people have some genuine connection with the country.  Plus, for many smaller countries, it may be a way to start to develop a program in that country and the country  benefits from the experience of the athlete. 

In Sarah's case, I think her husband is from Mexico and she's also been working with the younger Mexican skiers to help train them.

 

[jsharr ★]

I am pretty sure these guys are both North Korean.

[Zephyr]

3 hours ago, Kirby said:

when Yura Min very deftly handled a wardrobe malfunction

I have been waiting for years for a figure skating wardrobe malfunction, and I missed it

[maddmaxx ★]

There are Ice Hockey sisters this year playing for two different teams, US and Korea.  To be fair however, one is adopted.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

12 hours ago, pedalphile said:

biathlon excellent

One has to wonder how athletes can excel at the rifle shooting part of the biathlon when they come from countries where the citizens don't have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms.

 

[pedalphile]

9 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

One has to wonder how athletes can excel at the rifle shooting part of the biathlon when they come from countries where the citizens don't have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms.

 

By that reasoning the US would be sweeping the board, yet I don't see it?

[Wilbur ★]

12 hours ago, maddmaxx said:

There are Ice Hockey sisters this year playing for two different teams, US and Korea.  To be fair however, one is adopted.

There are 6 or 8 Canadians playing hockey for Korea this year as well.

 

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

1 hour ago, pedalphile said:

By that reasoning the US would be sweeping the board, yet I don't see it?

Not necessarily.  Having access to firearms does not automatically generate the skill of superior marksmanship.

To further illustrate the point though, you don't see countries with wide swaths of desert showing up to ski in the biathlon at the Olympics.

[pedalphile]

57 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

There are 6 or 8 Canadians playing hockey for Korea this year as well.

 

It's just as well the Olympic movement has no good repute to protect as this is the sort of thing that would fubar it.

 

[pedalphile]

3 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Not necessarily.  Having access to firearms does not automatically generate the skill of superior marksmanship.

To further illustrate the point though, you don't see countries with wide swaths of desert showing up to ski in the biathlon at the Olympics.

Re your 1st point, true, you need access then practice. Henry VIII banned footie and made archery practice compulsory, but that was when England was more serious about the Games.

Re your 2nd point, the way Qatar and Bahrain buy in athletes it may not be long before they can celebrate a biathlon medal or 2.

[pedalphile]

Thankfully the Brit hope in the speed skating short track crashed out, so I won't be having to hear about that for days and weeks on end.

[Wilbur ★]

3 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

Thankfully the Brit hope in the speed skating short track crashed out, so I won't be having to hear about that for days and weeks on end.

Maybe the entire empire should be a team.  

[pedalphile]

Just now, Wilbur said:

Maybe the entire empire should be a team.  

The only thing the Brits can do in the winter Olympics is the ice dancing, and that's not even a sport.

[Razors Edge ★]

15 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

One has to wonder how athletes can excel at the rifle shooting part of the biathlon when they come from countries where the citizens don't have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms.

Was that a serious comment TK? It doesn't seem like one of your normal reasoned responses.

Tom

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

40 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Was that a serious comment TK? It doesn't seem like one of your normal reasoned responses.

Tom

Entirely.  If you look at the list of teams that have fielded biathlon participants, there are only two (Guam and Costa Rica) that stand out as having no possibility of snow within their borders.  I suspect these outliers may have been the case where someone who got cut from another team wanted to participate, so they contacted a country that had no team.  You could also look to Israel, where military service is compulsory for most of its citizens, but they've never fielded a competitor in the biathlon event.

So, if one lived in a country without snow, you're pretty much out of luck if you want to excel in the event unless they ship you to train elsewhere.  Likewise, if you live in a country where access to firearms is denied the citizens, how does one develop an interest, not to mention a talent, in any event where shooting is involved?  Where would you get access to firearms?

One answer is, of course, to draw the participants from the military.  The old Communist Bloc countries used to do that - 'draft' athletes into the military where the 'assignment' would be training for the Olympics.

Another possible answer would be to obtain a firearm illegally, which is a route not likely to result in appearance at the Olympics however.  (It does highlight the fact that banning guns doesn't stop criminals from getting them and using them.)

I suppose another approach might be licensed or state-sanctioned shooting clubs, where guns are owned by the club and not by the citizens.  I know such clubs did exist in Europe at one time, but I don't know if they've since been made illegal.

 

[Razors Edge ★]

7 minutes ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said:

Entirely.  If you look at the list of teams that have fielded biathlon participants, there are only two (Guam and Costa Rica) that stand out as having no possibility of snow within their borders.  I suspect these outliers may have been the case where someone who got cut from another team wanted to participate, so they contacted a country that had no team.  You could also look to Israel, where military service is compulsory for most of its citizens, but they've never fielded a competitor in the biathlon event.

So, if one lived in a country without snow, you're pretty much out of luck if you want to excel in the event unless they ship you to train elsewhere.  Likewise, if you live in a country where access to firearms is denied the citizens, how does one develop an interest, not to mention a talent, in any event where shooting is involved?  Where would you get access to firearms?

One answer is, of course, to draw the participants from the military.  The old Communist Bloc countries used to do that - 'draft' athletes into the military where the 'assignment' would be training for the Olympics.

Another possible answer would be to obtain a firearm illegally, which is a route not likely to result in appearance at the Olympics however.  (It does highlight the fact that banning guns doesn't stop criminals from getting them and using them.)

I suppose another approach might be licensed or state-sanctioned shooting clubs, where guns are owned by the club and not by the citizens.  I know such clubs did exist in Europe at one time, but I don't know if they've since been made illegal.

 

I was making a comment regarding "citizens don't have a constitutionally protected right to own firearms".  That is pretty much 95+% of the world, so I figured you were just making a funny comment versus a serious one.

Tom

[Kzoo]

2 hours ago, pedalphile said:

The only thing the Brits can do in the winter Olympics is the ice dancing, and that's not even a sport.

You Brits have very short memories.

[MickinMD ★]

I love shouting "USA!" etc. at 4th of July fireworks events, U.S. Naval Academy athletics (25 minutes from my house), etc.  My family has contributed soldiers to every major U.S. war since my Great-Uncle John fought in Cuba during the Spanish-American War through my father losing half his left hand in WW2 to my brother-in-law fighting in Iraq and I left several more out. I spent a couple years working on a component to make the fuel used in the Tomahawk Cruise Missile burn smoothly so its onboard mapping and GPS can be accurate.

But I feel a little uncomfortable about waving the flag - and the effect it must have on other countries - at the Olympics.

The Olympics were originally restarted in the 1800's to bring athletes of different countries together in competition to form a bond that would promote international friendship.  No team scores were recorded.

Then the USA began to keep team gold-silver-bronze comparisons and soon everyone was doing it.

During the Cold War, the Communist Countries worked hard to develop top level athletes for political promotion purposes. I owned (maybe it's still in an attic box) an East German track coaching book translated into English on developing young track and field athletes and it included how to recognize 10-12 year-olds that should be immersed not only in track but in "proper" political ideals.

It seems to me that this year, more than any, the NBC interviewers are asking the athletes how much it means to them to compete FOR THEIR COUNTRY.  Of course, the original modern Olympic creators must turn in their graves every time they hear that.  Of course, it's refreshing to me to see the American, Japanese, Russian, German, etc. athletes cheering for each other in Slopestyle Snowboarding, Luge, Skating, etc.  I think that has a bigger effect on world peace than shouting "USA! USA! USA!" - which stands out when others consider it rude to shout "Deutschland!" (Germany), "Nippon!" (Japan), "Zhongguo!" (China), etc.

[pedalphile]

54 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

You Brits have very short memories.

It’s not short memory, more we don’t like to remember it.

[Kzoo]

Just now, pedalphile said:

It’s not short memory, more we don’t like to remember it.

He will live in infamy. 

[pedalphile]

2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

He will live in infamy. 

No, still Burnley, I think.

[Kzoo]

4 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

No, still Burnley, I think.

[Wilbur ★]

4 hours ago, pedalphile said:

The only thing the Brits can do in the winter Olympics is the ice dancing, and that's not even a sport.

We have one of those teams already. 

[Wilbur ★]

1 hour ago, MickinMD said:

I love shouting "USA!" etc. at 4th of July fireworks events, U.S. Naval Academy athletics (25 minutes from my house), etc.  My family has contributed soldiers to every major U.S. war since my Great-Uncle John fought in Cuba during the Spanish-American War through my father losing half his left hand in WW2 to my brother-in-law fighting in Iraq and I left several more out. I spent a couple years working on a component to make the fuel used in the Tomahawk Cruise Missile burn smoothly so its onboard mapping and GPS can be accurate.

But I feel a little uncomfortable about waving the flag - and the effect it must have on other countries - at the Olympics.

The Olympics were originally restarted in the 1800's to bring athletes of different countries together in competition to form a bond that would promote international friendship.  No team scores were recorded.

Then the USA began to keep team gold-silver-bronze comparisons and soon everyone was doing it.

During the Cold War, the Communist Countries worked hard to develop top level athletes for political promotion purposes. I owned (maybe it's still in an attic box) an East German track coaching book translated into English on developing young track and field athletes and it included how to recognize 10-12 year-olds that should be immersed not only in track but in "proper" political ideals.

It seems to me that this year, more than any, the NBC interviewers are asking the athletes how much it means to them to compete FOR THEIR COUNTRY.  Of course, the original modern Olympic creators must turn in their graves every time they hear that.  Of course, it's refreshing to me to see the American, Japanese, Russian, German, etc. athletes cheering for each other in Slopestyle Snowboarding, Luge, Skating, etc.  I think that has a bigger effect on world peace than shouting "USA! USA! USA!" - which stands out when others consider it rude to shout "Deutschland!" (Germany), "Nippon!" (Japan), "Zhongguo!" (China), etc.

Yeah, the whole USA, USA thing doesn't play well to foreign crowds. 

[Kzoo]

Just now, Wilbur said:

Yeah, the whole USA, USA thing doesn't play well to foreign crowds. 

Have you ever noticed how we really don't care?

 

Actually, I always thought the chant was sort'a dumb.

[pedalphile]

1 minute ago, Wilbur said:

Yeah, the whole USA, USA thing doesn't play well to foreign crowds. 

Speaking of which, when Canada last hosted this thing they won no friends with the whole “own the podium” thing, prompting 1 of my favourite Guardian headlines, Owning the Odium.

[Wilbur ★]

2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Have you ever noticed how we really don't care?

Oh yes, we noticed.  The evidence was presented on Nov 7th. 

[Wilbur ★]

4 minutes ago, pedalphile said:

Speaking of which, when Canada last hosted this thing they won no friends with the whole “own the podium” thing, prompting 1 of my favourite Guardian headlines, Owning the Odium.

It is still in place. http://www.ownthepodium.org/Funding

Feel free to contribute. 

Canadians were tired of lacklustre international competition.  The government provides zero leadership or stewardship so Own the Podium was formed. 

[Kzoo]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

It is still in place. http://www.ownthepodium.org/Funding

Feel free to contribute. 

This needs more than one Like.

[Green Grass]

14 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Yeah, the whole USA, USA thing doesn't play well to foreign crowds. 

The whole set up of the Olympics is nationalistic.  Parade of nations, national anthems for the winners, team uniforms delineated by country.  

Are you telling me that when the Dutch crowd fills the speed skating arena wearing orange from head to toe that they don't have nationalistic chants?

It's harmless.  It' no different than cheering for the Packers, if you live in Green Bay.

[maddmaxx ★]

18 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Yeah, the whole USA, USA thing doesn't play well to foreign crowds. 

Better to sing na na na na......na na na na.............na na ........bye bye. when winning.

[Wilbur ★]

2 minutes ago, Goat Geddah said:

The whole set up of the Olympics is nationalistic.  Parade of nations, national anthems for the winners, team uniforms delineated by country.  

Are you telling me that when the Dutch crowd fills the speed skating arena wearing orange from head to toe that they don't have nationalistic chants?

It's harmless.  It' no different than cheering for the Packers, if you live in Green Bay.

USA USA sounds thuggish.  Wearing cheese on your head is just funny.  

[Kzoo]

2 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

USA USA sounds thuggish.

Would it sound better chanted in say....... German?

[Green Grass]

3 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Wearing cheese on your head is just funny. borderline Canadian.

USA, USA, USA, USA and so on...except ice dancing.  Canadians can have that.

[Wilbur ★]

8 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Would it sound better chanted in say....... German?

Don't pat yourself too eagerly with that one. 

Always the US go to claim and so factually incorrect.  Thanks for eventually showing up though.  

[Ltdskilz]

1 hour ago, MickinMD said:

 

But I feel a little uncomfortable about waving the flag - and the effect it must have on other countries - at the Olympics.

 

FWIW, Mick, the Shani Davis dustup was about who was going to carry the flag representing the US in the Olympics Opening Ceremony, which is something every country participating does.

But I also did see where a Russian luge guy (luger?) who wasn't going to be able to go to the Olympics due to the doping ban sent his sled to an American to see if it would work for him. It was too small. But a great gesture among sportsmen.

[pedalphile]

3 minutes ago, Ltdskilz said:

FWIW, Mick, the Shani Davis dustup was about who was going to carry the flag representing the US in the Olympics Opening Ceremony, which is something every country participating does.

But I also did see where a Russian luge guy (luger?) who wasn't going to be able to go to the Olympics due to the doping ban sent his sled to an American to see if it would work for him. It was too small. But a great gesture among sportsmen.

Or a poisoned chalice, the sled could be doped.

[Kzoo]

11 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Don't pat yourself too eagerly with that one. 

Always the US go to claim and so factually incorrect.  Thanks for eventually showing up though.  

I believe you attempted to take that in a direction unintended.

[Thaddeus Kosciuszko]

23 minutes ago, Ltdskilz said:

But I also did see where a Russian luge guy (luger?) who wasn't going to be able to go to the Olympics due to the doping ban sent his sled to an American to see if it would work for him. It was too small.

A good thing too.

We could have had a whole 'nother collusion investigation on our hands. 

[Wilbur ★]

18 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I believe you attempted to take that in a direction unintended.

If your intent was other than "Without us you would all be speaking German", then I apologize.  

[BR46]

 

[Kzoo]

4 minutes ago, BR46 said:

 

Nominated for POTD.   @jsharr what says you?  Actually who cares what you say.  This is POTD

[jsharr ★]

1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

Nominated for POTD.   @jsharr what says you?  Actually who cares what you say.  This is POTD

I second that.