Hey, some good news for a change!

[Randomguy]

Joe Biden Formally Backs Consumers' Right to Repair Their Electronics

"Too many areas, if you own a product, from a smartphone to a tractor, you don’t have the freedom to choose how or where to repair that item you purchased."

By Jason Koebler

By Matthew Gault

January 24, 2022, 5:27pm

 

President Biden became the first sitting president to give extensive comments supporting the right to repair and acknowledging the anticompetitive practices of electronics manufacturers that have spent the last decade creating repair monopolies and making it difficult for consumers to fix the things they own.

At a cabinet meeting Monday, Biden gave an update on the executive order he issued last year that directed the Federal Trade Commission to create right to repair rules that would enforce against anticompetitive practices. “The right to repair,” he said. “It sounds kind of silly saying it that way, but we call it the right to repair and it’s literal.”

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“Too many areas, if you own a product, from a smartphone to a tractor, you don’t have the freedom to choose how or where to repair that item you purchased,” Biden added. “It’s broke. Well, what do I do about it if it’s broke, you had to go to the dealer and you had to pay the dealer’s cost, the dealer’s price. If you tried to fix it yourself, some manufacturers actually would void the warranty.” 

Biden was referring here to practices by John Deere and Apple, as well as by video game console manufacturers, who as Motherboard reported violate the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act with “Warranty Void if Removed” stickers.

In his statements, Biden said that he was “pleased to see the Federal Trade Commission unanimously announced that it would ramp up enforcement against illegal repair restrictions.” He also took credit for recent moves from Amazon and Microsoft that will, in theory, make it easier for people to gain access to repair parts and manuals for their devices. “Folks will be able to repair their phones and laptops themselves, although I’m not sure I know how to do that. Whenever I have a problem with my phone I call my daughter. But it’s going to make it easy for millions of Americans to repair their electronics instead of paying an arm and a leg to repair or just throwing a device out.”

The Biden administration has always explained right-to-repair legislation as pro-competition, stressing that taking away options from people hurts the market which hurts families. “Between generating higher prices and lower wages, lack of competition cost the median American family household—according to one study done at NYU— $5,000 a year,” Biden said during his announcement.

The right-to-repair movement has come a long way in the past few years. Biden’s speech comes on the heels of an executive order he signed in 2021 that paved the way for right-to-repair legislation in the U.S. The FTC then formally adopted a pro right-to-repair stance and began to study new enforcement mechanisms. At the same time, several proposed laws are working their way through state and federal legislature that would enshrine the right-to-repair.

This is an issue that goes far beyond letting people fix their own iPhones. Fixing a John Deere tractor has become a nightmare of software and restrictions. It’s such a problem that the market for tractors manufactured before the advent of on-board computers has exploded.

[Square Wheels]

Political?

It will go poof too if it gets that way.

[bikeman564™]

This has been a problem? Who knew

[Page Turner]

 

...repairability has become a growing issue with consumers like me and cars.  I used to do everything on my own cars, and was trained and qualified in auto electrical and emissions here in California. That was back in the mid 1980's.  Of the two cars we have now, there is very little I can find, in the way of repair manuals or even the diagnostic software, although there are online forums where information is shared on stuff like diagnostic codes.

They don't publish the repair manuals any more, you have to subscribe.  The costs of a subscription are prohibitive.  It's a racket.

 

Wait for it........it's coming...........wait for it..........fortunately rich California liberals like me have so much excess cash that we just hire out this work.

[Randomguy]

7 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Political?

???

Not even one little bit, why would anyone read anything political in that?
 

7 hours ago, bikeman564™ said:

This has been a problem? Who knew

Literally everybody knew.  Designing items that have to only be repaired by the manufacturer at exorbitant rates  or voids warranties adds tons to the costs for consumers and causes many consumer goods to be tossed rather than be fixed.   John Deere and Apple  being the two examples are not isolated instances of this.  
 

 
 
 

[Randomguy]

6 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Don’t you hate when you are tired and hit ‘quote’ instead of ‘edit’ but you can’t delete the unnecessary post?

[maddmaxx ★]

[bikeman564™]

5 hours ago, Randomguy said:

 

Don't I know it. someone should write an executive order

[Dirtyhip]

5 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

Don't I know it. someone should write an executive order

Trump signed 220 of them during his presidency, BTW.

Hey RG, I didn't think people repaired them.  In our wasteful society I thought people just threw them in the garbage when anything went wrong. 

[bikeman564™]

Just now, Dirtyhip said:

Trump signed 220 of them during his presidency, BTW.

 

What that this have to do w/ the price of tea in china? You just turned it political

I was making a joke regarding RG's "Don’t you hate when you are tired and hit ‘quote’ instead of ‘edit’ but you can’t delete the unnecessary post?".

[Razors Edge ★]

5 hours ago, Randomguy said:

Apple  being the two examples are not isolated instances of this.  

Apple is what drove folks nuts.  Between the non-replaceable battery (without risking damage and/or voiding warranties) and their closed eco-system, they drove consumer advocates bonkers.  Most of the electronics industry moved CLOSER to Apple's model, rather than away, and over the past couple decades, for less technically inclined folks, electronics have become expensive short lived devices. Some sort of guarantee of spare parts and a modicum of repairability will make them a bit more repairable.

 

13 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Political

If, by "political" you mean something folks across the spectrum of America and the world have been in favor of, but some manufacturers have been less enthusiastic about, then sure, but that's a wicked hard stretch of the imagination.  I've followed the right to repair issue for 15+ years, and can't say it's political unless someone 1) chooses to see it that way, and 2) a third-party group is lobbying behind the scenes to make it seem that way.   

[Dirtyhip]

4 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

What that this have to do w/ the price of tea in china? You just turned it political

I was making a joke regarding RG's "Don’t you hate when you are tired and hit ‘quote’ instead of ‘edit’ but you can’t delete the unnecessary post?".

The quote was empty content.  

Just stating a fact about executive orders.  You can delete my post if you like.

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Apple is what drove folks nuts.  Between the non-replaceable battery (without risking damage and/or voiding warranties) and their closed eco-system, they drove consumer advocates bonkers.  Most of the electronics industry moved CLOSER to Apple's model, rather than away, and over the past couple decades, for less technically inclined folks, electronics have become expensive short lived devices. Some sort of guarantee of spare parts and a modicum of repairability will make them a bit more repairable.

 

If, by "political" you mean something folks across the spectrum of America and the world have been in favor of, but some manufacturers have been less enthusiastic about, then sure, but that's a wicked hard stretch of the imagination.  I've followed the right to repair issue for 15+ years, and can't say it's political unless someone 1) chooses to see it that way, and 2) a third-party group is lobbying behind the scenes to make it seem that way.   

It is ridiculous how companies seem to rule around here.  It should never be that way.  

The 12 page disclaimer on everything.  <groan>  Who really reads those?   Makes me think of Seinfeld when he rented the car.

[maddmaxx ★]

Being a specialist in electronics microsurgery, most of you are barking up the wrong tree.

I spent some time a year or two ago in a phone repair shop.  His setup was worth many thousands of dollars.  It resembled my workbench back when I did this sort of stuff.

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

Being a specialist in electronics microsurgery, most of you are barking up the wrong tree.

I spent some time a year or two ago in a phone repair shop.  His setup was worth many thousands of dollars.  It resembled my workbench back when I did this sort of stuff.

You think it should be less repairable or more repairable?  I'm guessing the phone repair guys pray for "right to repair" to be around.

[maddmaxx ★]

25 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

You think it should be less repairable or more repairable?  I'm guessing the phone repair guys pray for "right to repair" to be around.

I don't think you stand a chance of repairing a modern cell phone.  Perhaps a battery replacememt, a reboot or a bowl of rice.  Donk might be able to handle a connector replacement.  After that you simply don't have the equipment or skills.  Just about anything on the ckt board requires a microscope and specialized tools along with specialized soldering equipment and cleaners.  They can be make large enough for you to repair.  Remember bag phones.

[Dirtyhip]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

I don't think you stand a chance of repairing a modern cell phone.  Perhaps a battery replacememt, a reboot or a bowl of rice.  Donk might be able to handle a connector replacement.  After that you simply don't have the equipment or skills.  Just about anything on the ckt board requires a microscope and specialized tools along with specialized soldering equipment and cleaners.  They can be make large enough for you to repair.  Remember bag phones.

My phone is on life support lately.  I am going to delete all the apps I can.  I am not getting much joy from insta, and others.  Too many ads and baloney.  I do not see the value these days.  

I do not stand a chance with repair.  I know this.  Maybe someone else though.  

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

Just about anything on the ckt board requires a microscope and specialized tools along with specialized soldering equipment and cleaners. 

Maybe it's time to deedeegee "right to repair", and you'll see it is aimed at the folks WITH the "microscope and specialized tools along with specialized soldering equipment and cleaners."   

The goal is for consumers AND non-manufacturer repair shops to have the same or close to same ability to repair broken products.  An example from Wiki is below of an earlier example of helping a consumer and non-dealer auto shop do work on vehicles:

Within the automotive industry, Massachusetts passed the United States' first Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act in 2012, which required automobile manufacturers to sell the same service materials and diagnostics directly to consumers or to independent mechanics as they provide exclusively to their dealerships.

It's broader than car, but if my vacuum breaks, does it make sense to only have Eureka able to repair it, or should the mom & pop on the corner be able to order the part and do the repair? Or should we just chuck the vacuum when the cost for Eureka to do it is prohibitive vs buying a new one, and the mom & pop can't source a part that Eureka has plenty of (or purposefully stopped manufacturing/storing)?

[Square Wheels]

Does it really matter?  If you open a cell phone, will it ever be watertight again?

We live in a disposable society; we need to accept that.

I remember a while back (OK, maybe 25 years), I brought in my really nice VCR to a repair shop.  They said if they could get the parts, it would be cheaper to replace with a new one than repair it.  Since that time, things have become less repairable.

My old phone was a Galaxy 8.  Samsung stopped providing updates a while ago.  Who cares if I can get a repair if it is unsafe to operate?  I now have a Galaxy 21, hopefully it will be paid off before they stop supporting it.

[MickinMD ★]

14 hours ago, bikeman564™ said:

This has been a problem? Who knew

In the 2000's, there's been a growing movement to by companies to force users of their products to use them and not 3rd parties to repair or replace parts - at incredibly higher prices than 3rd parties charge.  In a lot of cases, you void your warranty if you use 3rd parties.

It used to be that if a battery died on a cell phone you simply replaced it.  Now there's no openable compartment and you're expected to take it to an Apple or Android dealer to do it - for 5x to 10x the price of the battery.  There are online tutorials for how to do it yourself to melt the glue so you can get to the battery.

You used to be able to get 3rd party inks for printers that cost 70 cents and worked as well instead of the $15 for Epson, Brother, etc. official inks.  So now they include an electronic chip in the cartridge that does nothing except force the printer's owner to buy official inks.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

Does it really matter?  If you open a cell phone, will it ever be watertight again?

We live in a disposable society; we need to accept that.

I remember a while back (OK, maybe 25 years), I brought in my really nice VCR to a repair shop.  They said if they could get the parts, it would be cheaper to replace with a new one than repair it.  Since that time, things have become less repairable.

My old phone was a Galaxy 8.  Samsung stopped providing updates a while ago.  Who cares if I can get a repair if it is unsafe to operate?  I now have a Galaxy 21, hopefully it will be paid off before they stop supporting it.

Is your washing machine disposable if the hinge breaks or the rubber seal goes bad?  That's pretty frightening.  

Is your stove disposable when an igniter fails?

Is your BMW disposable when the ECM fails or needs an update?

[maddmaxx ★]

3 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Is your washing machine disposable if the hinge breaks or the rubber seal goes bad?  That's pretty frightening.  

Is your stove disposable when an igniter fails?

Is your BMW disposable when the ECM fails or needs an update?

Given up on phones eh?  The point was that it's actually cheaper to buy a new one that to pay someone to repair your broken phone beyond simple things like a new screen or battery.  The guy I met who attempted to have such a shop went under because his prices didn't cover his equpment.

[Square Wheels]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

Is your washing machine disposable if the hinge breaks or the rubber seal goes bad?  That's pretty frightening.  

Is your stove disposable when an igniter fails?

Is your BMW disposable when the ECM fails or needs an update?

Terrible examples.  All repairable and no federal policy on who can repair those items.

Our last washer was giving errors.  Repair guy came in.  Took a look, it might be a 600 dollar board, or something as simple as a frayed wire that would cost at least 600 to find.  He suggested replacing it.

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, maddmaxx said:

Given up on phones eh?

Nope.  Screen repair shops abound. I've repaired my own iPhone.  I'm in favor of shops of individuals doing the repairs for sure, but if you want to chase the perfect and ignore the good (again), go for it.  Feel free to throw out your old phones.  You're a good consumer and should stick to your strengths.

[maddmaxx ★]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

Nope.  Screen repair shops abound. I've repaired my own iPhone.  I'm in favor of shops of individuals doing the repairs for sure, but if you want to chase the perfect and ignore the good (again), go for it.  Feel free to throw out your old phones.  You're a good consumer and should stick to your strengths.

3 of 3.

[Razors Edge ★]

1 minute ago, Square Wheels said:

Terrible examples.  All repairable and no federal policy on who can repair those items.

Our last washer was giving errors.  Repair guy came in.  Took a look, it might be a 600 dollar board, or something as simple as a frayed wire that would cost at least 600 to find.  He suggested replacing it.

Maybe you don't want to deedeegee anything, and are trusting your gut on this one?

Within the automotive industry, Massachusetts passed the United States' first Motor Vehicle Owners' Right to Repair Act in 2012, which required automobile manufacturers to sell the same service materials and diagnostics directly to consumers or to independent mechanics as they provide exclusively to their dealerships.

...

The Massachusetts statute was the first to pass among several states, such as New Jersey,[24] which had also passed a similar bill through their Assembly. Facing the potential of a variety of slightly different requirements, major automobile trade organizations signed a Memorandum of Understanding in January 2014[25] using the Massachusetts' law as the basis of their agreement for all 50 states starting in the 2018 automotive year.[26] A similar agreement was reached by the Commercial Vehicle Solutions Network to apply to over-the-road trucks.[27]

[donkpow]

I saw the headline this week that some states have enacted such laws for automobile systems. The automobile makers with targeted systems, disable the unnecessary system rather than release the system to repairs. You gotta love the Chinese for hacking the crap out of everything.

[Dirtyhip]

8 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

We live in a disposable society; we need to accept that.

Nope.  We don't have to accept that.  

A wasteful society is in no way sustainable. 

 

[Bikeguy]

6 hours ago, Randomguy said:

John Deere and Apple  being the two examples are not isolated instances of this.  

Tesla comes to mind too...   

Technology is wonderful until it breaks.

John Deere has added computers to there farm tractors, probably even to my X390,  just like all new cars have LOTS of computers too.   

So if the law passes (which maybe a good thing) the manufactures get to provide more info, tech manuals,  (probably not free) to the consumers,  then what???   

Some guy is going to spend thousands of dollars for the testing equipment, computers, etc... that can diagnose a problem in his car, tractor, or phone.    So after that, you need to find the parts and get them installed, and configured (probably by another computer) so they work in your car?

I'd say this is more wishful thinking than a plan forward.   Not too many people will benefit from the law.  The added cost to supply repair info to a consumer (if it's required to be free) will just get added to the cost of the car, tractor, phone, etc...   A new repair business may need to be created, to do this kind of work.  

Me... I just will pay to have my JD or cars repaired.   

I did have a cell phone repaired, as I waited for about 1 1/2 hours once.   I dropped a phone and that shattered the screen.  I found a place that repairs phones, I called to be sure they had the parts, and for way less than the cost of a new phone 

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Dirtyhip said:

Nope.  We don't have to accept that.  

A wasteful society is in no way sustainable. 

 

It's TOO HARD. It's too COMPLEX. We're INCOMPETENT.  My brain is CONFUSED by all these WEIRD THINGS.  I need Apple to spoon feed me.

Get with the trends, DH, since apparently Americans are too pathetic to get things done anymore

[Dirtyhip]

1 minute ago, Razors Edge said:

It's TOO HARD. It's too COMPLEX. We're INCOMPETENT.  My brain is CONFUSED by all these WEIRD THINGS.  I need Apple to spoon feed me.

Get with the trends, DH, since apparently Americans are too pathetic to get things done anymore

My phone is an i6.  

Just too much data needs lately.  I am turning it all off.  It really is not necessary to function in society.  

[bikeman564™]

17 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

In the 2000's, there's been a growing movement to by companies to force users of their products to use them and not 3rd parties to repair or replace parts - at incredibly higher prices than 3rd parties charge.  In a lot of cases, you void your warranty if you use 3rd parties.

It used to be that if a battery died on a cell phone you simply replaced it.  Now there's no openable compartment and you're expected to take it to an Apple or Android dealer to do it - for 5x to 10x the price of the battery.  There are online tutorials for how to do it yourself to melt the glue so you can get to the battery.

You used to be able to get 3rd party inks for printers that cost 70 cents and worked as well instead of the $15 for Epson, Brother, etc. official inks.  So now they include an electronic chip in the cartridge that does nothing except force the printer's owner to buy official inks.

wait til your electric car needs a batter

[bikeman564™]

@Randomguy thanks for the HAHA. Cheese thought more thanks were needed around here

[Wilbur ★]

I don't understand.  I fix my own vehicles, appliances, phones, computers etc.  Parts are available all over the internet, as are instructions on how to fix them.  

[Randomguy]

58 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

 Not too many people will benefit from the law.

Yes, they certainly will.  If, for instance, Apple says (like it did to me) "You may not replace your battery on your iphone 7 (when I had that one) or have someone else, like a repair shop, replace it, or the warranty is void and screw you while you are at it".  I just lived with a battery with massively diminished life until I got a new phone.  If that voided warranty wasn't a certainty, I could have had that battery replaced at some phone repair shop or other for less than half the cost that Apple wanted to charge me.  This is a huge benefit to the consumer.

2 hours ago, bikeman564™ said:

I was making a joke regarding RG's "Don’t you hate when you are tired and hit ‘quote’ instead of ‘edit’ but you can’t delete the unnecessary post?".

That is how I took it!

2 hours ago, Dirtyhip said:

Hey RG, I didn't think people repaired them.  In our wasteful society I thought people just threw them in the garbage when anything went wrong. 

People do when it doesn't void warranties or cost an arm and a leg.   I would prefer to repair instead of toss, unless I was thinking of changing it out anyway.

2 hours ago, Razors Edge said:

Apple is what drove folks nuts.  Between the non-replaceable battery (without risking damage and/or voiding warranties) and their closed eco-system, they drove consumer advocates bonkers.

Yup.

1 hour ago, maddmaxx said:

I don't think you stand a chance of repairing a modern cell phone. 

It isn't all about the consumer repairing something themselves, but also to have a phone repair shop do it without voiding a warranty.  Some folks will have a crack at, and some have plenty of skills and the wherewithal to at least change a battery out, which is far and away the most likely problem area.  Shops and consumers should also have access to parts and specialized tools, along with repair manuals should they want to purchase them.

Despite the complexity of repairs for home tinkerers, this is a huge win for people tired of repair monopolies and tired of getting rid of stuff more quickly than they would like.

[Longjohn ★]

57 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I don't understand.  I fix my own vehicles, appliances, phones, computers etc.  Parts are available all over the internet, as are instructions on how to fix them.  

They can’t stop you from repairing your own stuff. I always repair my own stuff. Anyone who owns a pedal wrench can repair their own stuff.

[bikeman564™]

28 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

have someone else, like a repair shop, replace it, or the warranty is void

 

Stupid question. If the phone is under warranty, why take it somewhere else. Shouldn't there be a warranty claim? If the phone is out of warranty, take it where you want.

[Randomguy]

2 hours ago, Wilbur said:

I don't understand.

I have done all those things in the past except the phone stuff.  Some things you absolutely have to have repaired at or by the manufacturer or it'll void whatever warranty you have, or parts are not sold to third parties at all.  We will stay with Apple for the examples, since it is easiest.  If you have an apple phone, likely any work you do on it voids the warranty.  From the Apple site itself:

What Voids iPhone Warranty?

 

• Third-party unauthorized repairs. If you need to have your iPhone serviced, always book a Genius Bar appointment or go to an Apple Authorized Service Provider. Apple doesn’t cover damage caused by unauthorized service providers.

Also on the Apple site:

All new iPhones come with a one-year Apple warranty that covers defects in workmanship and materials. Unfortunately, jailbreaking your iPhone, scratching off the serial number, and third-party repairs will instantly void the warranty. 

[Bikeguy]

26 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Yes, they certainly will.  If, for instance, Apple says (like it did to me) "You may not replace your battery on your iphone 7 (when I had that one) or have someone else, like a repair shop, replace it, or the warranty is void and screw you while you are at it".  I just lived with a battery with massively diminished life until I got a new phone.  If that voided warranty wasn't a certainty, I could have had that battery replaced at some phone repair shop or other for less than half the cost that Apple wanted to charge me.  This is a huge benefit to the consumer.

But... you need a place to go to change the battery.   It's not like anyone I know will want to change an iPhone battery.  A few may do that... most won't even consider it.

I'd bet the phone repair place I found on the new NW side of Chicago could change an iPhone battery in probably an hour (or less) while you wait, and probably WAY cheaper than Apple.   And they could do it now without a law.   Most people won't do this...  they'd probably just get a new iPhone.   That 'attitude' needs to change.   Things can be repaired,

I was at my dad's home in the summer.  My sister called and asked if I could take the cloths from the washing machine and move them to the drier, and start the drier.   I found the washer still full of water.   The spin cycle didn't work.   Someone suggested it's time for a new washer.  I told them... no, call a repair guy.   $158 later the washing machine worked.   The first 'instinct' should not be to replace, it should be to repair. 

[bikeman564™]

9 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Ah, sure you do.  I have done all those things in the past except the phone stuff.  Some things you absolutely have to have repaired at or by the manufacturer or it'll void whatever warranty you have, or parts are not sold to third parties at all.  We will stay with Apple for the examples, since it is easiest.  If you have an apple phone, likely any work you do on it voids the warranty.  From the Apple site itself:

What Voids iPhone Warranty?

 

• Third-party unauthorized repairs. If you need to have your iPhone serviced, always book a Genius Bar appointment or go to an Apple Authorized Service Provider. Apple doesn’t cover damage caused by unauthorized service providers.

Also on the Apple site:

All new iPhones come with a one-year Apple warranty that covers defects in workmanship and materials. Unfortunately, jailbreaking your iPhone, scratching off the serial number, and third-party repairs will instantly void the warranty. 

again, why take it somewhere if its under warranty? No one here will answer this.

[Bikeguy]

18 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

hey can’t stop you from repairing your own stuff. I always repair my own stuff. Anyone who owns a pedal wrench can repair their own stuff.

I do a LOT if my own repairs.   For example...  I fixed my 1985 Maytag washer and dryer more than a few times.  They still worked at the end of 2019 when we sold the old home, and left them behind. 

My new washer and dryer.  I'm not sure I could repair them.   But... I probably will try if needed.   Then I'll call the guy after I find I can't fix it.  

[Randomguy]

12 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

They can’t stop you from repairing your own stuff.

They sure try to, and it is easy to understand why.  If you always have to go to them or (insert FUD statement), then they can charge what they want as they shut out competition.  It makes sense to stop the consumer or potential non-manufacturer's technician from making repairs however many ways possible to create or ensure a monopoly when feasible.

I have built up plenty of bikes, I get your analogy, and I have fixed my own cars when possible.  That said, any bike shop is good to swap a bottom bracket without voiding a warranty, and any car should be able to be repaired wherever, but you go to the dealer when you have a warranty.  In the John Deere example, there is this:

John Deere Promised Farmers It Would Make Tractors Easy to Repair. It Lied.

 

Three years ago, tractor manufacturers told farmers that starting in 2021, tractor repair information would be easily accessible. It's not.

By Jason Koebler

By Matthew Gault

February 18, 2021, 1:17pm

In September 2018, a trade group that represents John Deere and a series of other tractor and agricultural equipment manufacturers made a promise intended to stave off increasing pressure from their customers and to prevent lawmakers from passing what they said would be onerous repair regulations. They vowed that, starting January 1, 2021, Deere and other tractor manufacturers would make repair tools, software, and diagnostics available to the masses.

This "statement of principles

✎ EditSign

," as it was called at the time, was nominally designed to address concerns from farmers that their tractors were becoming increasingly unrepairable due to pervasive software-based locks that artificially prevented them from fixing their equipment. As Motherboard repeatedly reported at the time, farmers were being forced to go to "authorized" John Deere dealerships and service centers to perform otherwise simple repairs that they could no longer do because they were locked out of their equipment and needed special software to unlock it.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

The spin cycle didn't work.   Someone suggested it's time for a new washer.  I told them... no, call a repair guy.   $158 later the washing machine worked.   The first 'instinct' should not be to replace, it should be to repair. 

Repair man, or AUTHORIZED repair man?  

With the iPhone as an example - your screen breaks and you have a non-authorized repair shop do the easy screen fix.  But then, the battery flakes, and Apple is installing free new batteries in iPhones user warranty.  "Sorry. This phone has been tampered with.  Your warranty is void."

The main point being, you don't change folks instincts to repair things by making it HARDER to repair things.  You make it so their first assumption is that they CAN get it repaired, where they want, for less money than a simple "buy a new one".  

[Bikeguy]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

Repair man, or AUTHORIZED repair man?  

Not sure...  my brother knew a repair company in the area  (I live 80 miles away) that works on appliances.  He came and fixed it..

[Randomguy]

7 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

I'd bet the phone repair place I found on the new NW side of Chicago could change an iPhone battery in probably an hour (or less) while you wait, and probably WAY cheaper than Apple.   And they could do it now without a law.   Most people won't do this...  they'd probably just get a new iPhone. 

Yep, and it voids the warranty for the entire phone, instantly, as stated on the Apple website.  If you want to at least double your cost and keep your warranty, you'd be locked into going to whatever Apple store is closest to you and get it fixed on their schedule, rather than going to the closest non-Apple repair shop who could presumably do it faster and cheaper.

This was a necessary law for a reason.

[Dirtyhip]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

Repair man, or AUTHORIZED repair man?  

Bertazonni might not have needed to give me the stove if they just found a repair man.  

[Randomguy]

6 minutes ago, bikeman564™ said:

again, why take it somewhere if its under warranty? No one here will answer this.

I am happy to answer this, so is Apple.  What does the warranty not cover?  Broken glass, batteries, broken charging ports, and assorted other stuff.  Get those fixed anywhere but Apple, and your warranty is voided completely.

 

[Bikeguy]

Just now, Randomguy said:

Yep, and it voids the warranty for the entire phone, instantly, as stated on the Apple website.

So...  I have to ask (before @bikeman564™ does again)  if its under warranty,  why not just use the warranty for the repair?

If it's out of warranty... I'd take it to the phone repair shop I found.

From what I see an Apple warranty is just 1 year.  An Apple 7 would be out of warranty for a few years now.   So why not just get a place to swap the battery? 

[jsharr ★]

Does it cover Kia engines? 

[Razors Edge ★]

5 minutes ago, Bikeguy said:

So...  I have to ask (before @bikeman564™ does again)  if its under warranty,  why not just use the warranty for the repair?

If it's out of warranty... I'd take it to the phone repair shop I found.

From what I see an Apple warranty is just 1 year.  An Apple 7 would be out of warranty for a few years now.   So why not just get a place to swap the battery? 

Apple Care extended warranty.  The one year is the "free" warranty, but there are, like many companies offer, options to extend it.

Again, my ex of breaking a screen would not be covered under a warranty, just like a car crash is not covered under a car's warranty.  But, if you get it fixed outside the authorized repair shop, you void the warranty for the WHOLE phone. Ie - replacing your bumper on your own voided you drivetrain warranty.   

[Razors Edge ★]

3 minutes ago, jsharrwick said:

Does it cover Kia engines? 

Did you get your new tires through the dealer?