Somedays, I really hate teachers.

[Indy]

My son has to do a science fair thing this year.

What guidelines do we get for a project, nothing.  Supposed to work with a parent though.  So, son wants do Mechanical Engineers so I decide fine, we will do something on mechanical levers.  Simple, easy to work with, good basis for Mechanical Engineering.

After choosing have to fill out paper work weeks later.

What will you do if your experiment fails?

       It's math and science based and proven out.  It can't fail with out fundamental changes in Physics

Three sources of information for research on your topic and experiment

     Dad, Father and random website.

 

There were a few other questions that got equally insightful answers.  Teacher wrote back, "You are over my head, have fun".  Gave Graham 100%.

[jsharr ★]

So is this one of those times?

Maybe if you got a long enough lever you could move her to respond better?

[sheep_herder ★]

What's to hate? You won hands down. Enjoy!!

[jsharr ★]

[Indy]

9 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

What's to hate? You won hands down. Enjoy!!

I'm easily annoyed with the vague and cryptic directions.  It's so much fun trying to help Graham fill out paper work when he ask me what does she want and I have no freaking clue.

Probably the thing that has amazed me the most now dealing with teachers as a parent, how horrible they are at communicating.  A lot of them try way to try and sound impressive which causing them to come off as complete idiots.

[Indy]

Just now, jsharr said:

Wrong kind of lever.

We are going to be doing small weights on a piece of balsa wood.  Calculate the forces to balance and lift.  Told Graham depending how much we get done and if I can find the stuff, we might set one up for him to lift the side of my car and take a picture for his display.

[maddmaxx ★]

Life seems to be vague and cryptic.  It comes with no instructions.  We are expected to proceed as if we knew what to do.  It's a wonder any of us survive.

[sheep_herder ★]

I hate to say it, but I find this in many walks of life.  I am amazed at the vagueness in the local fair book. It is as if they want you to call the superintendents to learn what they really want, rather than just giving an adequate description.  Not sure if it is the ease of using electronics, but communication does not seem to be a strong suit for many in this world.

[Razors Edge ★]

16 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

What's to hate? You won hands down. Enjoy!!

I think he must hate that he did the work, and his kid got the 100%.  Didn't we all used to complain when it was obvious someone's parent did their project? Now, they just assume that is the case.

[Mr. Silly]

28 minutes ago, Indy said:

What will you do if your experiment fails?

       It's math and science based and proven out.  It can't fail with out fundamental changes in Physics

Wouldn't the correct answer be that you'd double check the set up of your experiment?  You are right in saying the math and science behind levers is well known.  The setup of the experiment would be the variable which could result in unexpected results.  An important lesson to learn in life is when things don't go as planned, it might be your own damned fault.

[Dirtyhip]

Maybe home schooling is a better option for you.  You complain a lot about school related things with the kids. 

[ChrisL]

5 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I think he must hate that he did the work, and his kid got the 100%.  Didn't we all used to complain when it was obvious someone's parent did their project? Now, they just assume that is the case.

We helped my kids do their projects but it was really their project and we made it clear they were doing it, not us. They got good grades on them but it was evident at a glance they did it and not a parent.  

Most of the projects looked like presentations I’d see in business meetings Freaking way over the top!  

[Indy]

2 minutes ago, Dirtyhip said:

Maybe home schooling is a better option for you.  You complain a lot about school related things with the kids. 

No, that just means I care.  If you live in area where parents never complain, it's usually because they don't care about their kids education and the scores in that school reflect it.

[Indy]

11 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I think he must hate that he did the work, and his kid got the 100%.  Didn't we all used to complain when it was obvious someone's parent did their project? Now, they just assume that is the case.

In this case, the directions said we are supposed to be working with them.  Otherwise, I make Graham do all his own work.  I might help, but I will not give him the answer, just smack up side the head when tries to write down the wrong one.  ?

[ChrisL]

1 minute ago, Dirtyhip said:

Maybe home schooling is a better option for you.  You complain a lot about school related things with the kids. 

As did I.  

We had a lot of issues with elementary school teachers and our son.  “You need to put him on something, he’s way out of the box.”  Except his pediatrician tested him and he’s not ADD or hyperactive.  He’s a freaking boy... We went round & round with his teachers for years.  I get @Indy frustration, we felt it too with many teachers..

homeschooling wasn’t a viable option for us or is it for many families for many reasons.

[shootingstar]

7 hours ago, ChrisL said:

 

homeschooling wasn’t a viable option for us or is it for many families for many reasons.

I'm not convinced that a lot of parents would be good well rounded teachers for a broad range of formal subjects for home schooling.  And a lot children don't necessarily want to listen to their parents for all subjects.  For certain, I couldn't have taken formal school subject instruction from either parent.  They didn't know about real skills in teaching vs. straight lecture.  They were each good only coaching in very narrow specific skill areas where they were each naturally strong.

And no teacher, could help me live/appreciate an intimately cross-cultural life nor what it means to live a life with 2 languages when for 1 language has grammar fallen on its face, but learning how to be forgiven or forgive others when they can't speak grammar/textbook language, but at least you've made yourself understood in a broken way.   A school classroom doesn't tolerate that incorrect grammar vs. the reality of street learning of language and its retention.

[Longjohn ★]

Homeschooling worked out well for our family. We had to educate the local school districts about the Pennsylvania home school law. They resent homeschoolers because they don’t receive money when we teach our own kids. We still paid school tax on our income, I don’t know where that went. 

[Kzoo]

Daughter#2 and 3 were homeschooled thru middle and HS.  We found lots of resources available.  I didn’t have time and WoKzoo didn’t have the skills but like I said- lots of resources.  They both did their senior years as college freshman in the local CC.  They were Deans List so their  homeschooling went OK.

[shootingstar]

45 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

. We still paid school tax on our income, I don’t know where that went. 

To support the schools for kids whose parents don't have necessary skills to teach/time/energy or patience. 

[sheep_herder ★]

Several students are home schooled locally, particularly until they enter high school.  I know some that were a bit miffed when the students were not allowed to be on athletic teams unless they were enrolled in public school.  I've not been involved with the students, but can envision that it would be nice for the students to experience the interaction with students and teachers in classrooms, particularly for those entering a trade and not going on to college.

[Longjohn ★]

2 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

To support the schools for kids whose parents don't have necessary skills to teach/time/energy or patience. 

I said the local schools didn’t get the tax money if the kids were not enrolled.

[maddmaxx ★]

7 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Several students are home schooled locally, particularly until they enter high school.  I know some that were a bit miffed when the students were not allowed to be on athletic teams unless they were enrolled in public school.  I've not been involved with the students, but can envision that it would be nice for the students to experience the interaction with students and teachers in classrooms, particularly for those entering a trade and not going on to college.

IMO one of the little recognized benefits of public schooling is learning how to interact with a less than perfect world.  You have to deal with people who might be life long friends or perhaps those who you can't stand to be in the same room with.  You meet new (to you) ethnic groups, encounter different interests and accommodate students with very different upbringings.

[Longjohn ★]

45 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

You meet new (to you) ethnic groups, encounter different interests and accommodate students with very different upbringings.

We had that with our PACO (parents and adopted children organization) group. We adopted black and bi-racial kids but most of the group did foreign adoptions. We were also active in several homeschool groups. The two younger of my boys went to a Christian high school, the eldest graduated from homeschool and wanted to go in the military but they wouldn’t accept his diploma. He had no trouble getting accepted at the College of his choice.

[MickinMD ★]

On 12/3/2019 at 11:50 AM, Indy said:

My son has to do a science fair thing this year.

What guidelines do we get for a project, nothing.  Supposed to work with a parent though.  So, son wants do Mechanical Engineers so I decide fine, we will do something on mechanical levers.  Simple, easy to work with, good basis for Mechanical Engineering.

After choosing have to fill out paper work weeks later.

What will you do if your experiment fails?

       It's math and science based and proven out.  It can't fail with out fundamental changes in Physics

Three sources of information for research on your topic and experiment

     Dad, Father and random website.

 

There were a few other questions that got equally insightful answers.  Teacher wrote back, "You are over my head, have fun".  Gave Graham 100%.

As a high school science teacher, science fair projects were required by those in Gifted and Talented Chemistry Classes each year when I first was assigned to teach them.  I was no impressed.  Other years, I was asked to volunteer to judge various middle school science fairs.

Eventually, I was able to get my kids out of having to do them and, instead, I had them do projects: songs, comic books, etc. that had to do with chemistry.

For example, the Noble Gases are unreactive so, to the tune of "Oh, Lord it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way," two of my students wrote and sang:

Oh Lord, it's hard to be reactive, When you're Noble in every way... with clever lines about electron octets, shells, etc.

Another team wrote a comic book, The Angry Electron, where the Neutron and Proton made themselves a home together, which they named The Nucleus, and the Electron angrily circled the house, rising to bigger and bigger circles the angrier it got.  The interaction of the three things simulated the rules for their interactions according to modern physics/chemistry.

The projects were presented on the last day of school before the Winter Holidays when classes were doing next to nothing anyway.  We had soda, tea, water, and snacks.

Those who took part probably remember more about chemistry due to those memorable projects than from the rest of the class!

 

[Kzoo]

16 hours ago, Longjohn said:

We had that with our PACO (parents and adopted children organization) group. We adopted black and bi-racial kids but most of the group did foreign adoptions. We were also active in several homeschool groups. The two younger of my boys went to a Christian high school, the eldest graduated from homeschool and wanted to go in the military but they wouldn’t accept his diploma. He had no trouble getting accepted at the College of his choice.

Like I said above, my 2 homeschooled girls got accepted to the local community college before they started their senior years.  They just had to check the box for dual enrollment and provide a copy of their transcript (which WoKzoo kept up).  They each carried a full load for a year and 'graduated' HS as college sophomores (at a CC level).  Our local CC has a strong credit transfer program with Western Michigan University which means they are then accepted by every other state school.  My girls had 5 and 6 years of homeschooling respectively and had no issues getting into schools after that.   

And they were pretty well socially adjusted.  That crap about not being involved with the rest of the world is perpetuated by people that have no idea or experience in what they are blabbering on about.  A socially ill-adjusted homeschool kid is the same socially ill-adjusted kid in public school.

[Indy]

25 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

As a high school science teacher, science fair projects were required by those in Gifted and Talented Chemistry Classes each year when I first was assigned to teach them.  I was no impressed.  Other years, I was asked to volunteer to judge various middle school science fairs.

Eventually, I was able to get my kids out of having to do them and, instead, I had them do projects: songs, comic books, etc. that had to do with chemistry.

For example, the Noble Gases are unreactive so, to the tune of "Oh, Lord it's hard to be humble, when you're perfect in every way," two of my students wrote and sang:

Oh Lord, it's hard to be reactive, When you're Noble in every way... with clever lines about electron octets, shells, etc.

Another team wrote a comic book, The Angry Electron, where the Neutron and Proton made themselves a home together, which they named The Nucleus, and the Electron angrily circled the house, rising to bigger and bigger circles the angrier it got.  The interaction of the three things simulated the rules for their interactions according to modern physics/chemistry.

The projects were presented on the last day of school before the Winter Holidays when classes were doing next to nothing anyway.  We had soda, tea, water, and snacks.

Those who took part probably remember more about chemistry due to those memorable projects than from the rest of the class!

 

This is my first time doing one.  But yeah, I wish we didn't because it's just a wide open thing.  Now Graham had all kinds of ideas, but none that I could figure out how to reasonably pull off, of course maybe part of it was me over thinking it as I started thinking aerodynamic analysis, which means really complex differential equations and such when Graham brought up doing rockets and different fin design.

[Kzoo]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

when Graham brought up doing rockets and different fin design.

You could do rockets (Estes) and some rocket engine analysis along with some theory of propulsion.  Same rocket different engines - Estes engines are rated on force and duration.  Rocket engine propulsion can make for a dynamic junior science display.

And Dad can build a test stand to set them off in the classroom.  Graham would be a class hero. 

[Indy]

1 minute ago, Kzoo said:

You could do rockets (Estes) and some rocket engine analysis along with some theory of propulsion.  Same rocket different engines - Estes engines are rated on force and duration.  Rocket engine propulsion can make for a dynamic junior science display.

And Dad can build a test stand to set them off in the classroom.  Graham would be a class hero. 

Know them well, I was into them as a kid and built many.

Got a friend that is now into the larger class where you have to have a license and go to special events to launch them because of the altitude they hit.  I was just trying to put something on elementary school level.  Plus it's getting cold here and if I am chasing rockets, I'd rather it be warm out.

[Forum Administrator]

I freaking hate science fairs.  They have nothing to do with the scientific process and often are more of a parent assignment than a student assignment.

You should do the Estes rockets.....  Set off the smoke detectors in the school and have some fun.