Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #51 Posted December 31, 2017 42 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Here is a little reading while you spin.. http://blog.primalpastures.com/uncategorized/china-study/ BTW, beans, legumes, soy... extremely inflammatory and all a big part of vegan diets. Source for that last part? When I googled that aboot all I got were scamming-looking websites. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #52 Posted December 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: Source for that last part? When I googled that aboot all I got were scamming-looking websites. My immunologist and tons of medical reading. I am a lifetime allergy/asthma sufferer and legumes are a no-no for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #53 Posted December 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Wilbur said: My immunologist and tons of medical reading. I am a lifetime allergy/asthma sufferer and legumes are a no-no for me. Well shit! There is starting to be little left to eat! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #54 Posted December 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: Well shit! There is starting to be little left to eat! Where's the beef? Legumes are seeds and are spread by animal ingestion. They are tolerant of the digestion process which makes them a natural inflammatory. This is why immunologists suggest avoidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #55 Posted December 31, 2017 Maybe we are too obsessed with eating. Most people around the world probably can't afford to be such :()&;/- choosy mothers! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 31, 2017 Share #56 Posted December 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Square Wheels said: I heard that eating animal products could lead to inflammatory diseases, hypertension and cardiovascular disease. Even if none of this is true, I get all of the nutrition (definitely a lot more) than if I ate an animal based diet, so there is no loss for me. If even 1/4 of what vegans claim is true, I will be significantly healthier than the average person. One problem is that "animal products" are virtually indistinguishable from "vegan products" as a category, health-wise. Bacon is an animal product, just as twinkies are a vegan product. Both processed crap nutritionally, so we really have to cut the crap from our arguments. Also, you simply have to stop calling any diet with meat in it a 'meat based diet, that is just not a smart or a reasonable way to frame it. If you frame things that way, you are just looking at black and white thinking, and is that ever productive? We also have to separate the 'could' from the 'does'. Meat 'could' lead to disease, and 'does' have vitamins that are nearly impossible to get in profusion unless you eat it, the lack of which does directly cause health problems. So what are you going to do, avoid a possible cause to incur a probable deficit that will cause what you are trying to avoid? How is one better than the other? How can you say the average American diet is unhealthy and attribute that to meat, rather than the whole host of other crap in there? A healthy omnivore diet is way healthier than a vegan junk food diet, and a healthy vegan diet is way better than a spam and potato chip diet. Broad categories may be easy short term identifiers if they add up, but all our definitions are open to interpretation, and the vegan or 'meat based diet' groupings are overly broad to be of much use from a health perspective. The best thing that I see from many of the folks here is that they identify what is healthier for them and trend toward that while moderating other things that seem detrimental when mass-consumed. Like Wilbur and others here point out, moderation and self-control are key, and they are the hardest thing to keep in check. I wish I could. Anyway, it is best to keep looking for evidence rather than conjecture or complete identification with one faction that wants to do your thinking for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 31, 2017 Share #57 Posted December 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, Wilbur said: My immunologist and tons of medical reading. I am a lifetime allergy/asthma sufferer and legumes are a no-no for me. I have problems with beans, too, but I try to sneak them in in small quantities in salads so they don't cause massive problems with digestive inflammation. Lots of stuff out there about the inflammatory components of them, though. Sorry Ralph! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #58 Posted December 31, 2017 Epistemology is a great subject, i.e. How do we know things? It seems to me that too many people use credentials as a license to make shit up, i.e. diet doctors. You would think science would lead to more cut and dried answers, but instead it is seemingly contradictory studies. So even when someone cites good scientific studies there always seems to be a directly contradictory one oot there. But when people just say shit, the alarms go off. Life is devilishly complex! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #59 Posted December 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Randomguy said: I have problems with beans, too, but I try to sneak them in in small quantities in salads so they don't cause massive problems with digestive inflammation. Lots of stuff out there about the inflammatory components of them, though. Sorry Ralph! The fist time I had black bean soup I loved it and gobbled up a HUGE bowl. Sadly this was on the road, and aboot an hour later all hell broke loose! So ever since then I have been very careful and moderate with black beans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted December 31, 2017 Share #60 Posted December 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Randomguy said: The best thing that I see from many of the folks here is that they identify what is healthier for them and trend toward that while moderating other things that seem detrimental when mass-consumed. Like Wilbur and others here point out, moderation and self-control are key, and they are the hardest thing to keep in check. I wish I could. Anyway, it is best to keep looking for evidence rather than conjecture or complete identification with one faction that wants to do your thinking for you. Excellent summation. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted December 31, 2017 Share #61 Posted December 31, 2017 1 minute ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: The fist time I had black bean soup I loved it and gobbled up a HUGE bowl. Sadly this was on the road, and aboot an hour later all hell broke loose! So ever since then I have been very careful and moderate with black beans. I used to tolerate beans very well and they were a big part of my diet. If tolerated, they are a wonderful food with lots of nutrients, especially protein and calcium. Lately, however, I have had to cut back. Only one bowl of beans at a time for me now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #62 Posted December 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Road Runner said: I used to tolerate beans very well and they were a big part of my diet. If tolerated, they are a wonderful food with lots of nutrients, especially protein and calcium. Lately, however, I have had to cut back. Only one bowl of beans at a time for me now. I've got a jar of my mother's canned green beans on deck to eat. They are goood! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted December 31, 2017 Share #63 Posted December 31, 2017 1 minute ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: I've got a jar of my mother's canned green beans on deck to eat. They are goood! Are green beans beans? I think of them as veggies and not beans, you see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #64 Posted December 31, 2017 Just now, Randomguy said: Are green beans beans? I think of them as veggies and not beans, you see. Half and half since they have the brown inner bean I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Road Runner Posted December 31, 2017 Share #65 Posted December 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Randomguy said: Are green beans beans? I think of them as veggies and not beans, you see. The beans that hold so much goodness are the black beans, white beans, navy beans and pinto beans. Green beans are a different category and do not supply the same nutrients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #66 Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Randomguy said: One problem is that "animal products" are virtually indistinguishable from "vegan products" as a category, health-wise. Bacon is an animal product, just as twinkies are a vegan product. Both processed crap nutritionally, so we really have to cut the crap from our arguments. Also, you simply have to stop calling any diet with meat in it a 'meat based diet, that is just not a smart or a reasonable way to frame it. If you frame things that way, you are just looking at black and white thinking, and is that ever productive? We also have to separate the 'could' from the 'does'. Meat 'could' lead to disease, and 'does' have vitamins that are nearly impossible to get in profusion unless you eat it, the lack of which does directly cause health problems. So what are you going to do, avoid a possible cause to incur a probable deficit that will cause what you are trying to avoid? How is one better than the other? How can you say the average American diet is unhealthy and attribute that to meat, rather than the whole host of other crap in there? A healthy omnivore diet is way healthier than a vegan junk food diet, and a healthy vegan diet is way better than a spam and potato chip diet. Broad categories may be easy short term identifiers if they add up, but all our definitions are open to interpretation, and the vegan or 'meat based diet' groupings are overly broad to be of much use from a health perspective. The best thing that I see from many of the folks here is that they identify what is healthier for them and trend toward that while moderating other things that seem detrimental when mass-consumed. Like Wilbur and others here point out, moderation and self-control are key, and they are the hardest thing to keep in check. I wish I could. Anyway, it is best to keep looking for evidence rather than conjecture or complete identification with one faction that wants to do your thinking for you. I always think we should make more use of Venn diagrams, so the intersection of healthy and vegan might only be some small portion of the vegan spectrum, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddmaxx ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #67 Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: Well shit! There is starting to be little left to eat! And? You wanted to cut back right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoo Posted December 31, 2017 Share #68 Posted December 31, 2017 On 12/30/2017 at 12:10 AM, Dunning Kruger said: I'm with you boss. I haven't even started the vegan diet yet and KZoo called me a jackass. DK Link or it didn’t happen. I am concerned for you my friend and simply sent you a link to a cautionary article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheep_herder ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #69 Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Square Wheels said: I agree there were a few parts of the show that seemed radical and unbelievable, but overall, I heard that eating animal products could lead to inflammatory diseases, hypertension and cardiovascular disease. Even if none of this is true, I get all of the nutrition (definitely a lot more) than if I ate an animal based diet, so there is no loss for me. If even 1/4 of what vegans claim is true, I will be significantly healthier than the average person. Speaking of the average person, have you looked at people today? Take a walk in the mall, the grocery store, the bank, on TV, pretty much anywhere. So many people are huge, none of them look happy. They look miserable just trying to get around. I will not go back to being that. Plus many are on meds. You're overweight? Here, take these diabetes, high blood pressure, stattns, gout, arthritis and so many other drugs. Don't actually do anything to lessen the effect of your self induced disease, just take meds with many side effects and all is well. What, the side effects are bothering (killing) you, here, take these... Off to the basement to ride for an hour and a half, I hope I don't die being as malnourished as I am. I hate to see you get so wrought up about the average person. Nicer when you emphasize the positives in your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #70 Posted December 31, 2017 When the gluten free fad started a while ago, I heard an interview with a doctor. They said it wasn't the gluten free diet that was helping people lose weight as much as they were paying better attention to what they were eating. They had eaten crap. That's how they became overweight. Once they started eating better, they lost weight. The article I linked mentioned the same thing from a doctor. For a lot of players going vegan, it was as much about cleaning up their diet as anything else. They say Michael Jordan ate a steak before games. Kyrie Irving is vegan. Two players achieving at the highest level doing it in opposing ways. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR46 Posted December 31, 2017 Share #71 Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, dennis said: They said it wasn't the gluten free diet that was helping people lose weight as much as they were paying better attention to what they were eating. They had eaten crap. That's how they became overweight. Once they started eating better, they lost weight. ☝ yes You don't have to eat less you just have to eat smarter. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Kosciuszko Posted December 31, 2017 Share #72 Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: Epistemology Bravo, Ralph! Now there's a word that's rarely seen and infrequently used, but well worth the time to look up an understand not only its definition, but the concepts it represents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #73 Posted December 31, 2017 Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #74 Posted December 31, 2017 20 minutes ago, dennis said: Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. Strunk and white would be proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longjohn ★ Posted December 31, 2017 Share #75 Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Thaddeus Kosciuszko said: 7 hours ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: Epistemology Bravo, Ralph! Now there's a word that's rarely seen and infrequently used, but well worth the time to look up an understand not only its definition, but the concepts it represents I thought that was the incision the doctor’s made to make it easier to deliver a baby? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share #76 Posted December 31, 2017 This thread is stupid. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted January 1, 2018 Share #77 Posted January 1, 2018 18 hours ago, Longjohn said: I thought that was the incision the doctor’s made to make it easier to deliver a baby? I don;t think they do that any more. I remember watching when the doctor did that for our first daughter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 1, 2018 Share #78 Posted January 1, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 9:38 AM, Randomguy said: Bacon is an animal product, just as twinkies are a vegan product. Both processed crap nutritionally, so we really have to cut the crap from our arguments. Twinkies are hardly "vegan". Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted January 2, 2018 Share #79 Posted January 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Razors Edge said: Twinkies are hardly "vegan". Tom Oreos, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedalphile Posted January 2, 2018 Share #80 Posted January 2, 2018 On 30/12/2017 at 5:10 AM, Dunning Kruger said: I haven't even started the vegan diet yet and KZoo called me a jackass. DK There's no known diet will cure that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #81 Posted January 2, 2018 16 hours ago, Randomguy said: Oreos, too. Oreos are vegan. But don't double down on claiming Twinkies are vegan. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomguy Posted January 2, 2018 Share #82 Posted January 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: Oreos are vegan. But don't double down on claiming Twinkies are vegan. Tom I thought they were, but I guess they buy whatever fat is cheapest and they apparently found that eggs are cheaper than chemicals, too. If you are eating twinkies, it probably doesn't matter anyway. I am gonna guess they are equally deadly. INGREDIENTS enriched bleached wheat flour (flour, reduced iron, "b" vitamins (niacin, thiamine mononitrate (b1), riboflavin (b2), folic acid)), water, sugar, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated vegetable and/or animal shortening (soybean, cottonseed and/or canola oil, beef fat), whole eggs, dextrose, contains 2% or less of: soy lecithin, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, cornstarch, and monocalcium phosphate), whey, modified corn starch, glucose, soy flour, salt, mono and diglycerides, cellulose gum, cornstarch, sodium stearoyl lactylate, natural and artificial flavor, sorbic acid (to retain freshness), polysorbate 60, soy protein isolate, calcium and sodium caseinate, yellow 5, red 40. Oreos: INGREDIENTS SUGAR, UNBLEACHED ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMINE MONONITRATE {VITAMIN B1}, RIBOFLAVIN {VITAMIN B2}, FOLIC ACID), PALM AND/OR CANOLA OIL, COCOA (PROCESSED WITH ALKALI), HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, LEAVENING (BAKING SODA AND/OR CALCIUM PHOSPHATE), CORNSTARCH, SALT, SOY LECITHIN, VANILLIN (AN ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR), CHOCOLATE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #83 Posted January 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Randomguy said: enriched bleached wheat flour (flour, reduced iron, "b" vitamins (niacin, thiamine mononitrate (b1), riboflavin (b2), folic acid)), water, sugar, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated vegetable and/or animal shortening (soybean, cottonseed and/or canola oil, beef fat), whole eggs, dextrose, contains 2% or less of: soy lecithin, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, cornstarch, and monocalcium phosphate), whey, modified corn starch, glucose, soy flour, salt, mono and diglycerides, cellulose gum, cornstarch, sodium stearoyl lactylate, natural and artificial flavor, sorbic acid (to retain freshness), polysorbate 60, soy protein isolate, calcium and sodium caseinate, yellow 5, red 40. Gotta love "and/or" in an ingredients list. Like you wrote, whatever fat is cheapest We used to have a food scientist/chemist over on the LF. Maybe she could have explained some of the rest of that list of ingredients. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR46 Posted January 2, 2018 Share #84 Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Randomguy said: . INGREDIENTS enriched bleached wheat flour (flour, reduced iron, "b" vitamins (niacin, thiamine mononitrate (b1), riboflavin (b2), folic acid)), water, sugar, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, partially hydrogenated vegetable and/or animal shortening (soybean, cottonseed and/or canola oil, beef fat), whole eggs, dextrose, contains 2% or less of: soy lecithin, leavenings (sodium acid pyrophosphate, baking soda, cornstarch, and monocalcium phosphate), whey, modified corn starch, glucose, soy flour, salt, mono and diglycerides, cellulose gum, cornstarch, sodium stearoyl lactylate, natural and artificial flavor, sorbic acid (to retain freshness), polysorbate 60, soy protein isolate, calcium and sodium caseinate, yellow 5, red 40. Oreos: INGREDIENTS SUGAR, UNBLEACHED ENRICHED FLOUR (WHEAT FLOUR, NIACIN, REDUCED IRON, THIAMINE MONONITRATE {VITAMIN B1}, RIBOFLAVIN {VITAMIN B2}, FOLIC ACID), PALM AND/OR CANOLA OIL, COCOA (PROCESSED WITH ALKALI), HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, LEAVENING (BAKING SODA AND/OR CALCIUM PHOSPHATE), CORNSTARCH, SALT, SOY LECITHIN, VANILLIN (AN ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR), CHOCOLATE. And this is why I try to do as much clean eating as possible. If it has chemicals I can't pronounce or know what they are I try to stay away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #85 Posted January 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, BR46 said: And this is why I try to do as much clean eating as possible. If it has chemicals I can't pronounce or know what they are I try to stay away. Keep in mind, rarely do companies mention the various fertilizers or the drug regimens that are parts of "modern" food production. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheep_herder ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #86 Posted January 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Razors Edge said: Keep in mind, rarely do companies mention the various fertilizers or the drug regimens that are parts of "modern" food production. Tom Just curious, what fertilizers concern you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #87 Posted January 2, 2018 This is a good read that simplifies things pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #88 Posted January 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, sheep_herder said: Just curious, what fertilizers concern you? To eat, none since I generally avoid them altogether That's good common sense. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheep_herder ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #89 Posted January 2, 2018 31 minutes ago, Razors Edge said: To eat, none since I generally avoid them altogether That's good common sense. Tom Interesting, but I'll not pursue the subject with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #90 Posted January 2, 2018 1 hour ago, dennis said: This is a good read that simplifies things pretty well. I always get him mixed up with Jackson Pollack. That would make a good book club book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #91 Posted January 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Razors Edge said: Gotta love "and/or" in an ingredients list. Like you wrote, whatever fat is cheapest We used to have a food scientist/chemist over on the LF. Maybe she could have explained some of the rest of that list of ingredients. Tom I love the "Village People" effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinneR ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #92 Posted January 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, RalphWaldoMooseworth said: I always get him mixed up with Jackson Pollack. That would make a good book club book. It would. And it's a quick read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphie ★ Posted January 2, 2018 Share #93 Posted January 2, 2018 1 minute ago, dennis said: It would. And it's a quick read. I'll see if my liberry has it tonight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris... Posted April 12, 2018 Share #94 Posted April 12, 2018 I never watched the documentary and I’m still alive 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razors Edge ★ Posted April 12, 2018 Share #95 Posted April 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, Chris... said: I never watched the documentary and I’m still alive But are you living. Truly living???? Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share #96 Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Chris... said: I never watched the documentary and I’m still alive Are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirwickWithCheese Posted October 3, 2021 Share #97 Posted October 3, 2021 I was looking for a cheesecake thread. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airehead Posted October 3, 2021 Share #98 Posted October 3, 2021 Well there is a white bean vegan cheesecake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airehead Posted October 3, 2021 Share #99 Posted October 3, 2021 It is actually quite good. You should try it without knowing it is dairy and nut free. I would make it for @Square Wheels when he comes to visit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Wheels Posted October 4, 2021 Author Share #100 Posted October 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Airehead said: It is actually quite good. You should try it without knowing it is dairy and nut free. I would make it for @Square Wheels when he comes to visit. I like nuts. Vegan, gluten-free, as organic as practical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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