COVID-19 Updates

[12string]

Pot sales = medicine.  Golf courses = recreation

Walmart sells food, golf courses don't

Lottery tickets provide funding to state governments that desperately need it now, and are only sold at essential stores.  Flooring can wait.

The lady behind the cash register is checking out your food, you can buy a car on line

 

See how it works?  Sure, NO governor is going to get them all right.  The Michigan governor may be weighing more heavily on one side of the risk/reward than other governors, but it's not some sinister plot.  She trying to keep her people alive.  I would rather the mistakes that they are all going to make be made on the safe side

I don't envy ANY of them, they are in a no-win situation.  And trying their best.

[Razors Edge ★]

3 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

32 minutes ago, 12string said:

it's about this being ESSENTIAL

It's about being arbitary as to what is essential and total lack of transparency,

I'm going with the "you're both right" answer here.

I don't think - across the 50 states and down to the individual counties, cities, and town - that I have seen a clear definition of "essential" that couldn't be poked and prodded to death.

I also think, in a snowstorm or a hurricane, it is still nearly impossible to get folks to obey "essential travel only" or "state of emergency" rules, so when you start stretching that beyond 24 hours, it will be a shit show.

I think the smarter governors will realize they need to offer some loosening EVERY day rather than week by week or longer.  Not even huge reductions, but sometimes incremental - like all restaurants closed, restaurants open but for delivery only, then for delivery and take out, then for limited outdoor dining, then for 25% capacity inside dining, then 50%, then 100%.  Give folks HOPE that there is an end point.

For the "Big Box" vs smaller rules, those seem like they should have been under weekly review and modification.  I get a knee jerk reaction when a tsunami hits, but folks need to regroup and think on their feet to always be tweaking/fixing/learning.

[Kzoo]

7 minutes ago, 12string said:

(let's) See how it works?

Pot sales = recreation  Golf courses = keeping a very large investment form going to seed - literally

Walmart sells food, golf courses don't BUT I'm allowed to stand in a long line of hackers at WM but I wasn't allowed to sit by myself on a CG while mowing a green.

Lottery tickets provide funding to state governments that desperately need it now, and are only sold at essential stores.  Flooring can wait.  I could understand that - unless I was in the middle of a remodel when the virus struck then someone else decided that I could step across floor joist for the next couple months.

The lady behind the cash register is checking out your food, you can buy a car on line - you missed the point - Cars could not be sold and heaven help you if you were in the middle of a new home purchase with a bank promise ticking.

[maddmaxx ★]

27 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

It's about being arbitary as to what is essential and total lack of transparency, all the while being a political hack about the whole thing.  So pot sales are essential but if I own a golf course I have to let the greens go to seed because I'm not allowed to work independently on the green but I am allowed to stand in a long line inside WalMart .  A lottery ticket is essential but flooring is not.  The lady behind it cash register is essential but the car salesman is not.  I can stand in line to buy a jigsaw puzzle but I can't sit in my boat and fish with my son or spouse because there are 3 other trucks parked at the boat landing.  I could get my car repaired or detailed but I couldn't get my bike fixed even if it was the only way I had to get to work because all bike shops had to close.  And I couldn't get my body repaired at the hospital but I could get my baby aborted just down the hall from where they would have fixed my body.  

I get the whole be safe thing. I mask up, all of our employees are work from home and we will probably be WFT even after Gov. Witless lifts the ban.  All the precautions are more than a good idea.  I attend a large church that meets virtually now and will for some time to come - I'm all good with that.  What I'm not good with is our governor's belief that she is the only one with answers and she can override a judge and ignore the representatives we elected to make decisions for us.  And then her reluctance to make any change until someone files a Federal lawsuit.  It's obvious from her actions that state courts don't scare her but Federal ones do.

I't's not about a haircut.

 

I suspect that the exceptions were more driven by special interest groups than some random decision by the governor.  I can just imagine the indignation if pot sales had not been ruled essential.  In a state like Michigan I'd fear stoners with guns in my state house too.

Again I have to judge by CT but the decisions on what was essential and what was not was hotly debated in our state legislature with all the special interests lined up for one thing or another.  Once the "essentials" were ironed out the governor laid down the law on how each business would be required to operate within those guidelines.  Maybe it's the proximity to NYC, but CT residents seem far more scared of the virus than the lack of opening of everything.  Don't get me wrong.  We still have some very loud minority groups screaming at the tops of their lungs that this is all a hoax and we should grant them their rights to open everything right now............but in spite of a few traffic jams from rolling protests around the governors home (wife and kids were there governor was at work) they are relatively subdued compared to what I see on my tele from other states.

 

I have watched local business (hamburger stand) shut down more than once because they were unable to maintain social distancing order among customers.  The famous local case is Harry's vs motorcycle clubs.  They are open again but the have only got a very narrow drive through lane, no tables, no place to gather and socialize and at least now more frequent visits from the police to prevent yokels from hurting a business trying to survive.

[Mr. Silly]

2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Pot sales = recreation 

Not in Michigan.  It is medical here.

[Kzoo]

1 minute ago, maddmaxx said:

and what was not was hotly debated in our state legislature with all the special interests lined up for one thing or another.  Once the "essentials" were ironed out the governor laid down the law

Oh my goodness, you have a governor who actually worked with the legislature instead of actually thumbing their nose at them.  We could only wish.

 

[Randomguy]

27 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

It's about being arbitary as to what is essential and total lack of transparency, all the while being a political hack about the whole thing.  So pot sales are essential but if I own a golf course I have to let the greens go to seed because I'm not allowed to work independently on the green but I am allowed to stand in a long line inside WalMart .  A lottery ticket is essential but flooring is not.  The lady behind it cash register is essential but the car salesman is not.  I can stand in line to buy a jigsaw puzzle but I can't sit in my boat and fish with my son or spouse because there are 3 other trucks parked at the boat landing.  I could get my car repaired or detailed but I couldn't get my bike fixed even if it was the only way I had to get to work because all bike shops had to close.  And I couldn't get my body repaired at the hospital but I could get my baby aborted just down the hall from where they would have fixed my body.  

I get the whole be safe thing. I mask up, all of our employees are work from home and we will probably be WFT even after Gov. Witless lifts the ban.  All the precautions are more than a good idea.  I attend a large church that meets virtually now and will for some time to come - I'm all good with that.  What I'm not good with is our governor's belief that she is the only one with answers and she can override a judge and ignore the representatives we elected to make decisions for us.  And then her reluctance to make any change until someone files a Federal lawsuit.  It's obvious from her actions that state courts don't scare her but Federal ones do.

I't's not about a haircut.

 

Honestly, it just sounds like you don't like your elected official, something that many of us are going through with you.  Apparently, elected officials can do things that are much more despicable than your governor did and get away with it if there are enough co-conspirators to go along with it.  Nothing I can tell you other than you just have to lump it until you can elect someone else at the next election.  

[maddmaxx ★]

1 minute ago, Randomguy said:

Honestly, it just sounds like you don't like your elected official, something that many of us are going through with you.  Apparently, elected officials can do things that are much more despicable than your governor did and get away with it if there are enough co-conspirators to go along with it.  Nothing I can tell you other than you just have to lump it until you can elect someone else at the next election.  

Well, you could always march on Ft Sumter the state house.

[12string]

6 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I'd fear stoners with guns in my state house too

Alcohol sales are essential because they don't want the hospitals full of people with the DTs

[maddmaxx ★]

4 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Oh my goodness, you have a governor who actually worked with the legislature instead of actually thumbing their nose at them.  We could only wish.

 

Is your governor from the same party as the one that controls your legislature?  If not, is working together difficult?

[Kzoo]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

Not in Michigan.  It is medical here.

Saying this a nicely as possible, what rock have you been living under?  I have a half dozen recreational shops within a stones throw from our office.  OK maybe not that close but down the street.

[Randomguy]

3 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Oh my goodness, you have a governor who actually worked with the legislature instead of actually thumbing their nose at them.  We could only wish.

It is possible yours tried, too.  There isn't a good way to know, is there?

 

Just now, Kzoo said:

Saying this a nicely as possible, what rock have you been living under?  I have a half dozen recreational shops within a stones throw from our office.  OK maybe not that close but down the street.

You should maybe pop in one, buy something and mellow out, you sound a bit aggro right now.

[KrAzY]

Let’s slow the roll guys.. take a break from this thread for a while, go for a walk.. smoke some pot.. or even fiddle your diddle...whatever

no need to go after anyone political or not. 
If it keeps up I will lock down this thread and you will have to start over or be given warning points. 
 

don’t want to see anyone banned for something silly y’all can simply walk away from right now. 

[Mr. Silly]

7 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Saying this a nicely as possible, what rock have you been living under?  I have a half dozen recreational shops within a stones throw from our office.  OK maybe not that close but down the street.

According to this list (which I concede is a little dated) that would only be possible if you work in Ann Arbor.  CBD stores often have a marijuana leaf on their signage.  Perhaps that is what is confusing you.

That said, the recreational marijuana dispensaries also sell it for medical use.  If they need to stay open for medical sales they may as well sell recreational weed too.   

[Randomguy]

12 minutes ago, KrAzY said:

go for a walk.. smoke some pot..

I want to go smoke pot on a golf course!

[Dottleshead ★]

53 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

What I'm not good with is our governor's belief that she is the only one with answers and she can override a judge and ignore the representatives we elected to make decisions for us.  

That sounds familiar.

[Razors Edge ★]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Grumpy said:

According to this list (which I concede is a little dated) that would only be possible if you work in Ann Arbor.  CBD stores often have a marijuana leaf on their signage.  Perhaps that is what is confusing you.

That said, the recreational marijuana dispensaries also sell it for medical use.  If they need to stay open for medical sales they may as well sell recreational weed too.   

With bars closed, and all alcohol and cigarette sales banned, I wonder if there will be an "uptick" in pot sale - medical or recreational???

[The_Karen_Cooper_Incident]

3 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

I want to go smoke pot on a golf course!

That's why I keep posting those golf videos for you.  I know how much you love golf and stuff.

Mudkipz

[Kzoo]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

cigarette sales banned

Cigarettes are essential.  One of our clients are cigarette distributors to convenience stores in about 15 states from Michigan to the gulf.  They didn't miss a beat.

[Razors Edge ★]

9 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

Cigarettes are essential.  One of our clients are cigarette distributors to convenience stores in about 15 states from Michigan to the gulf.  They didn't miss a beat.

Well, lung cancer clearly is more important than liver cancer disease!  Is cirrhosis of the liver a cancer??? Google says ... no!  I'm impressed I spelled it correctly, but sort of sad I have no idea what it is. 

[Kzoo]

10 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I'm impressed I spelled it correctly,

Even a blind squirrel gets the time right twice a day.

 

[Prophet Zacharia]

3 hours ago, Kzoo said:

He was cited and a judge (part of the judicial branch of the state as you remember) threw the citation out for legal reasons.  The state (the executive branch) could of appealed that but did not.  They instead repealed his license (in less time that it takes to get a hair cut) without the required hearing

I know you have bigger fish to fry with your Governor than this one issue, but it keeps coming up so I will ask. Who do you want making decisions about professional licenses (and in this context that means infectious disease control), your licensing boards or a judge? And if there is concern that there is an immediate threat to public health, pulling someone’s license would be appropriate with chance to have a review hearing at a later date. It would be contra-intuitive to file an appeal and let him keep operating if the licensing board had concern enough to act. 
 

There is a valid reason that barbers need a license, yes?

[Razors Edge ★]

7 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

There is a valid reason that barbers need a license, yes?

REVENUE!!!!!  Lining the coffers!

[Kzoo]

4 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

I know you have bigger fish to fry with your Governor than this one issue, but it keeps coming up so I will ask. Who do you want making decisions about professional licenses (and in this context that means infectious disease control), your licensing boards or a judge? And if there is concern that there is an immediate threat to public health, pulling someone’s license would be appropriate with chance to have a review hearing at a later date. It would be contra-intuitive to file an appeal and let him keep operating if the licensing board had concern enough to act. 
 

There is a valid reason that barbers need a license, yes?

I have to be careful here or @KrAzY is going to ban me... We live in a land of laws.  We live in a land of laws for a reason.  Declared emergencies are normally considered in that process.  The disagreement here is basically the same one that was decided yesterday in WI.  It's not about a haircut.  In this case the judicial side of the house made a decision that the executive side disagreed with.  There are rules in place for the licensing of this operation that were ignored by the executive side after the decision This is just more of the same as the executive side has ignored the legislative side for the past month.  And yes those issues will find their way through the courts here. 

[Prophet Zacharia]

2 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I have to be careful here or @KrAzY is going to ban me... We live in a land of laws.  We live in a land of laws for a reason.  Declared emergencies are normally considered in that process.  The disagreement here is basically the same one that was decided yesterday in WI.  It's not about a haircut.  In this case the judicial side of the house made a decision that the executive side disagreed with.  There are rules in place for the licensing of this operation that were ignored by the executive side after the decision This is just more of the same as the executive side has ignored the legislative side for the past month.  And yes those issues will find their way through the courts here. 

Let’s keep it general so as to avoid any political creep, because I’d like to better understand your perspective that it’s not about a haircut.

A barber is cited for unsanitary conditions. Instead of correcting those conditions and paying the fine, he challenges the citation in court. A judge decides he is not guiltily and dismisses the fine.

But the judge has no saying on whether the licensing board can and should restrict the license. So the licensing board says fine, if you won’t follow our sanitation policies, we won’t license you. You’re closed, we can have a hearing to discuss that.

To be honest, I’m having a hard time finding an issue with that. 

[Razors Edge ★]

6 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

It's not about a haircut. 

All things considered, though, looking at the diagram from the study of how one person spreads COVID to those around them, it's not hard to see that a barber shop where masks are not worn or not worn properly IS a health hazard in a pandemic.  I do see inconsistency in application of what is open vs closed, but man, it is tough to back a business not even trying to check the spread of COVID.

[Kzoo]

6 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

So the licensing board says fine, if you won’t follow our sanitation policies, we won’t license you. You’re closed, we can have a hearing to discuss that.

That's not the prescribed process.  And just to keep it general, it's just one more thing in a long line of crap pulled by the executive.

The land of the free and the home of the brave...

[Dottleshead ★]

58 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

With bars closed, and all alcohol and cigarette sales banned, I wonder if there will be an "uptick" in pot sale - medical or recreational???

The dope shop across the street has folks lined up outside it all the time.

[Prophet Zacharia]

5 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

That's not the prescribed process.

What is the prescribed process for something being perceived as an imminent threat to public health?

If I were to learn that a licensed surgeon was operating after drinking alcohol at lunch, if he were unwilling to stop practing on his own, I would want the state medical license board to suspend his license immediately, and have a hearing later to determine his fitness to return to the OR.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

54 minutes ago, Kzoo said:

I have to be careful here or @KrAzY is going to ban me... We live in a land of laws.  We live in a land of laws for a reason.  Declared emergencies are normally considered in that process.  The disagreement here is basically the same one that was decided yesterday in WI.  It's not about a haircut.  In this case the judicial side of the house made a decision that the executive side disagreed with.  There are rules in place for the licensing of this operation that were ignored by the executive side after the decision This is just more of the same as the executive side has ignored the legislative side for the past month.  And yes those issues will find their way through the courts here. 

Was it a veto proof decision?  If yes and the governor still ignored it would the next step be impeachment?  If yes then where do the guys with guns in the gallery fit in.

[Dottleshead ★]

29 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

What is the prescribed process for something being perceived as an imminent threat to public health?

If I were to learn that a licensed surgeon was operating after drinking alcohol at lunch, if he were unwilling to stop practing on his own, I would want the state medical license board to suspend his license immediately, and have a hearing later to determine his fitness to return to the OR.

 

Don't you find it ironic ex-military guys spewing the home and land of the free stuff come from socialist systems? The military is as socialistic as it gets. Maybe they know something we don't. Maybe being ex-military isn't as glamorous as many believe. One would think it'd be easy for religious, ex-military guys to support the greater good. I mean isn't that what their whole life's training and education tells them? Instead what I am hearing/reading is a violation of individual rights during a pandemic. Interesting.

 

[maddmaxx ★]

37 minutes ago, Dottles said:

Don't you find it ironic ex-military guys spewing the home and land of the free stuff come from socialist systems? The military is as socialistic as it gets. Maybe they know something we don't. Maybe being ex-military isn't as glamorous as many believe. One would think it'd be easy for religious, ex-military guys to support the greater good. I mean isn't that what their whole life's training and education tells them? Instead what I am hearing/reading is a violation of individual rights during a pandemic. Interesting.

 

speak for yourself.

mmmm, never mind.

[Dottleshead ★]

10 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

speak for yourself.

mmmm, never mind.

What do you mean?

[Randomguy]

1 hour ago, Kzoo said:

That's not the prescribed process.  And just to keep it general, it's just one more thing in a long line of crap pulled by the executive.

The land of the free and the home of the brave...

LOCK HER UP!!!

[maddmaxx ★]

30 minutes ago, Dottles said:

What do you mean?

I don't think you are correct.  Sometimes maybe but many of the "ex military" types we see in pictures wouldn't even qualify as mall security.

I can only speak for myself however as I am ex military.

[KrAzY]

2 hours ago, Kzoo said:

I have to be careful here or @KrAzY is going to ban me... We live in a land of laws.  We live in a land of laws for a reason.  Declared emergencies are normally considered in that process.  The disagreement here is basically the same one that was decided yesterday in WI.  It's not about a haircut.  In this case the judicial side of the house made a decision that the executive side disagreed with.  There are rules in place for the licensing of this operation that were ignored by the executive side after the decision This is just more of the same as the executive side has ignored the legislative side for the past month.  And yes those issues will find their way through the courts here. 

We can be nice or I will close this thread and will reopen it at 4am tomorrow.. don’t play politics with me.. I’m not up for it

[BR46]

Current rules in Wisconsin on who can be open, who's is still closed is kinda like driving in India. 

[Dottleshead ★]

29 minutes ago, maddmaxx said:

I don't think you are correct.  Sometimes maybe but many of the "ex military" types we see in pictures wouldn't even qualify as mall security.

I can only speak for myself however as I am ex military.

I am not ex-military but my father is. No direct experience serving though.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Dottles

[Wilbur ★]

13 minutes ago, KrAzY said:

We can be nice or I will close this thread and will reopen it at 4am tomorrow.. don’t play politics with me.. I’m not up for it

Grumpy bastard!   

[maddmaxx ★]

4 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Grumpy bastard!   

Hey!!  Stay away from my rice bowl.

[KrAzY]

14 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Grumpy bastard!   

A little.. just getting tired of seeing people that used to be friends start smack talking each other 

[Wilbur ★]

2 hours ago, KrAzY said:

A little.. just getting tired of seeing people that used to be friends start smack talking each other 

Well, fortunately, I have never liked any of you bastards.    Except Kzoo.  Kzoo and Zephyr.  Maybe DH too.  But that is all.     You were tolerable but then you became Texican.  Oh, I like jsharr as well.. 

Couch, though.  Couch is my hero.  

[KrAzY]

38 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Well, fortunately, I have never liked any of you bastards.   

Your Canadian.. why would I expect anything else

[dinneR ★]

53 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Well, fortunately, I have never liked any of you bastards.    Except Kzoo.  Kzoo and Zephyr.  Maybe DH too.  But that is all.     You were tolerable but then you became Texican.  Oh, I like jsharr as well.. 

Couch, though.  Couch is my hero.  

And this paddle ball?

[Dottleshead ★]

3 hours ago, Wilbur said:

Well, fortunately, I have never liked any of you bastards.    Except Kzoo.  Kzoo and Zephyr.  Maybe DH too.  But that is all.     You were tolerable but then you became Texican.  Oh, I like jsharr as well.. 

Couch, though.  Couch is my hero.  

Thanks @Wilbur.   I'm willing to wager that I'm the only guy in here that has reached out to you a couple of times to get advice -- and -- I fucking listened.  Just think what you I bring to the table. Another source looking to drain you.

[Wilbur ★]

4 hours ago, Dottles said:

Thanks @Wilbur.   I'm willing to wager that I'm the only guy in here that has reached out to you a couple of times to get advice -- and -- I fucking listened.  Just think what you I bring to the table. Another source looking to drain you.

 

7 hours ago, dennis said:

And this paddle ball?

..and dennis too!  Jury is out on Dotty. 

[shootingstar]

So the above chat is an update on .....the buddy circle.

As per this topic thread, I find this sad and frustrating. Ontario is like any other densely populated jurisdiction in North America:

While the publicly-available numbers from the Ministry of Health don't reveal a breakdown by profession, the latest available Public Health Ontario data provided to CBC News shows positive tests have been confirmed for:

• 714 nurses.

• 76 physicians.

• 70 first responders, including paramedics and other non-medical professions.

• 41 lab workers.

• More than 2,700 others, including personal support workers, respiratory therapists, hospital cleaners, and instances where local public health units did not specify a specific profession.

With cases popping up in workers across the spectrum, Carr warned even the best efforts of front-line staff aren't enough to mitigate the spread of the new coronavirus among their peers within health-care settings.

[shootingstar]

I was still trying to figure it if the employees for the private firm recycling firm, normally wear gloves.  So virus floating in the air or..?  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-outbreak-recycling-blue-bins-1.5570401

[donkpow]

8 minutes ago, shootingstar said:

I was still trying to figure it if the employees for the private firm recycling firm, normally wear gloves.  So virus floating in the air or..?  

I imagine for most manual activities, gloves are worn. Of course they are likely soaked with crap that has accumulated since new. The cheapest leather gloves cost around$10 US. Not something you want to throw away every day. It is likely that none of the employees are wearing significant PPE. At best, they are wearing surgical masks. Given the amount of material floating in the atmosphere and all the splashing and the items bouncing around, these employees are immersed in the contaminants you have been tossing in the trash.

[MickinMD ★]

Note the missing number for Fort Meade in the partial list of community cases in my county in the table below.

Fort Meade doesn't disclose much.  Years ago, a local builder wanted to buy land near Fort Meade and build a new community, so he called Fort Meade and asked how many people worked at the National Security Agency whose headquarters is there.  They wouldn't tell him.

He called the Governor, his Congressman, Senators, etc.  No luck!

Finally, he called the Soviet Union's Embassy.  They told him!