The vaccine. Will you take it?

[Airehead]

1 hour ago, Square Wheels said:

I don't know if that's allowed for drugs under EUA.

That is my official stance at work. I am offering but not mandating due to the EUA status. 

[Dottleshead ★]

I'm going to wait.

[BuffJim]

3 hours ago, 12string said:

Whoa, dude!  SOOO sorry!  My fingers and brain apparently haven't yet met.  I hope you don't really think I meant that!  

I know I'm opinionated and stubborn, but I don't intend to be harsh about it, it's just a personality flaw of mine.  The harsh in this case comes not from opinion, but from the facts.  That doctor is telling a complete and well documented lie.  And it's a lie that could get people killed.  I want you well, vaccinated (not virused!).  Yup, I'm harsh about the virus, and other things that can harm people.

Yup, I'm angry about the COVID mess, it shows here and I want it to.  Just lost another acquaintance this morning to it.  And I regularly hear the despair from medical professionals in my family.  Politics and conspiracies about COVID are eating at their souls as they work their butts off to watch their patients needlessly die.  Yeah, I'm angry.

I can assure you my Doctor is not lying. He could be wrong (I don’t think so on the man made origin from the Wuhan lab) but I assure you he’s not lying. I suggest being a little more tolerant of those you don’t agree with. 

[dinneR ★]

2 hours ago, Randomguy said:

 

It seems to me to viruses mutate like teenagers or college students have sex.  All you have to do to get college students to have wild and inexplicable sex is to put them in a room together and it will happen.  Same with those nasty-ass wetmarkets where every dead or sick animal that people will pay a nickel for are in the same place at the same time with open wounds and rabies and animal gonorrhea, shit is gonna happen.

This is a scientific fact. We should all listen to Dr. Randomguy.

I thought the whole Wuhan lab theory had been disproven. 

This is a good read explaining spillover. 

[maddmaxx ★]

A snip from the Amazon review of the book ^^^  Of note, this book was published in 2013.

Spillover delivers the science, the history, the mystery, and the human anguish of disease outbreaks as gripping drama. And it asks questions more urgent now than ever before: From what innocent creature, in what remote landscape, will the Next Big One emerge? Are pandemics independent misfortunes, or linked? Are they merely happening to us, or are we somehow causing them? What can be done? Quammen traces the origins of Ebola, Marburg, SARS, avian influenza, Lyme disease, and other bizarre cases of spillover, including the grim, unexpected story of how AIDS began from a single Cameroonian chimpanzee. The result is more than a clarion work of reportage. It’s also the elegantly told tale of a quest, through time and landscape, for a new understanding of how our world works―and how we can survive within it.

[Razors Edge ★]

11 hours ago, dennis said:

I thought the whole Wuhan lab theory had been disproven. 

You run in the wrong circles, man!  Ditch the science stuff, and head to the conspiracy threads. It's far more fun and YOU can be a part of the action rather than being forced to listen to what a bunch of nerdy professionals "think"! 

[Prophet Zacharia]

1 hour ago, Razors Edge said:

being forced to listen to what a bunch of nerdy professionals

I still haven’t got a clue as to why Jim’s internist wouldn’t recommend he get vaccinated. World views aside regarding where the virus came from,  who wouldn’t recommend vaccinating people with extreme risk factors for death or serious debilitating impairment? It’s not that he doesn’t believe the virus is harmful. It sounds like he’s got his own, alternative theories of treatments. 

So, is he just really old? A little bit full of himself having achieved notoriety but now no longer a leader? As a result he’s growing cynical, feeling he’s seen more and knows more than these experts? I’m just spit-balling here, but that’s the best formulation I can come up with.

[Ralphie ★]

Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

I still haven’t got a clue as to why Jim’s internist wouldn’t recommend he get vaccinated. World views aside regarding where the virus came from,  who wouldn’t recommend vaccinating people with extreme risk factors for death or serious debilitating impairment? It’s not that he doesn’t believe the virus is harmful. It sounds like he’s got his own, alternative theories of treatments. 

So, is he just really old? A little bit full of himself having achieved notoriety but now no longer a leader? As a result he’s growing cynical, feeling he’s seen more and knows more than these experts? 

It is pretty disturbing to see doctors deviate too much from convention or a standard of care.  It is too close to economists who never agree with each other.  But that is the dismal science.  Sure, medicine i' snot totally clear cut but it is 'sposed to be science-based.

[Razors Edge ★]

3 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

World views aside

IMPOSSIBLE to put those aside for many folks.  Left - right -center -neutral ALL have folks who believe in UFOs, conspiracies, Elvis is alive, the moon landing was faked, flat earth, etc..  You'd think a doctor would be above that but no way is that likely to be the case with every doctor.

[Prophet Zacharia]

Just now, Razors Edge said:

You'd think a doctor would be above that but no way is that likely to be the case.

But at the end of the day he seems to acknowledge that it’s a real illness. As far as we can tell, he’s not claiming it’s a hoax, or no worse that the  flu, etc. If he were, then I could “understand” his position. 

[Razors Edge ★]

Just now, Prophet Zacharia said:

But at the end of the day he seems to acknowledge that it’s a real illness. As far as we can tell, he’s not claiming it’s a hoax, or no worse that the  flu, etc. If he were, then I could “understand” his position. 

To separate and wacky claims:

1) lab made virus (is real, though);

and

2) the vaccine is a bad idea.

One can either believe one or the other or both or neither.  Belief in either, though, seems a real shame and not easily dispelled.

I remember, as a teen, having a discussion with an adult who believed in Professional Wrestling. Normal guy, normal job, WACKADOO about Hulk or Andre and their "wars" with other "wrestlers".

[sheep_herder ★]

6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

 

I remember, as a teen, having a discussion with an adult who believed in Professional Wrestling. Normal guy, normal job, WACKADOO about Hulk or Andre and their "wars" with other "wrestlers".

Whoa!! So next, I suppose you will tell me there is no Santa Claus.

[Prophet Zacharia]

10 minutes ago, sheep_herder said:

Whoa!! So next, I suppose you will tell me there is no Santa Claus.

Just wait until he gets to the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy!

[Square Wheels]

AstraZeneca and J&J will have a non-RNA vaccine early next year.

I'll wait for that.  Or I'll be dead.  We'll see.

[Razors Edge ★]

2 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

AstraZeneca and J&J will have a non-RNA vaccine early next year.

I'll wait for that.  Or I'll be dead.  We'll see.

J&J?  You're trusting them?  Interesting.  Don't trust some pharma, do trust others (with long track records). 

[Prophet Zacharia]

8 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

a non-RNA vaccine early next year.

What’s your concern with the RNA vaccine?

[Randomguy]

40 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

To separate and wacky claims:

1) lab made virus (is real, though);

and

2) the vaccine is a bad idea.

One can either believe one or the other or both or neither.  Belief in either, though, seems a real shame and not easily dispelled.

I remember, as a teen, having a discussion with an adult who believed in Professional Wrestling. Normal guy, normal job, WACKADOO about Hulk or Andre and their "wars" with other "wrestlers".

Ok, most conspiracy theories ARE wacky, but not all are.  I don't doubt for a second that good 'ol Uncle Sam was and currently is into some pretty nefarious shit, and lots of it.  We did develop nuclear weapons and continue to find new and more effective ways to take out an enemy.  We absolutely look into weaponizing drugs and psych ops, why wouldn't we look into viruses and bacteria as a means to get the job done on a finite and controllable scale if possible?  We would have to be fools to think we aren't doing this, or Russia, or China, or any third world country with sufficient resources isn't doing it.

That said, the simplest explanation is most often the best and most logical explanation, almost certainly is a virus mutation and interspecies spread.  Again, for coronavirus, it just doesn't matter from a purely health perspective where it came from, only that it exists.  Is clearly does.

Since it exists and is bad (again, self-evident), we should do something about it.  Provide obstacles and barriers to transmission (proven effective when not sabotaged by incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads) and social distancing (also proven effective when not sabotaged by incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads) are the obvious place to start (when not sabotaged by incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads).

Since the incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads did not bother to do this properly or at all, we only have the vaccine left to work with from a practical perspective.  So that leads to just two questions:

Does the vaccine work, and is it safe?  If yes to both, then for fucks sake don't be a goddamned soulless self-absorbed fucking asshole and get the vaccine so YOU don't spread it around to others when you get covid.

You are welcome.

[Zephyr]

16 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

AstraZeneca and J&J will have a non-RNA vaccine early next year.

I'll wait for that.  Or I'll be dead.  We'll see.

Just remember "There is no such thing as a stupid question,  only stupid people asking questions"

Are there vegan and non-vegan vaccines?  Would that affect(effect?) your decision?

[Razors Edge ★]

12 minutes ago, Randomguy said:

Ok, most conspiracy theories ARE wacky, but not all are.  I don't doubt for a second that good 'ol Uncle Sam was and currently is into some pretty nefarious shit, and lots of it.  We did develop nuclear weapons and continue to find new and more effective ways to take out an enemy.  We absolutely look into weaponizing drugs and psych ops, why wouldn't we look into viruses and bacteria as a means to get the job done on a finite and controllable scale if possible?  We would have to be fools to think we aren't doing this, or Russia, or China, or any third world country with sufficient resources isn't doing it.

That said, the simplest explanation is most often the best and most logical explanation, almost certainly is a virus mutation and interspecies spread.  Again, for coronavirus, it just doesn't matter from a purely health perspective where it came from, only that it exists.  Is clearly does.

Since it exists and is bad (again, self-evident), we should do something about it.  Provide obstacles and barriers to transmission (proven effective when not sabotaged by incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads) and social distancing (also proven effective when not sabotaged by incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads) are the obvious place to start (when not sabotaged by incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads).

Since the incredibly short-sighted and selfish fuckheads did not bother to do this properly or at all, we only have the vaccine left to work with from a practical perspective.  So that leads to just two questions:

Does the vaccine work, and is it safe?  If yes to both, then for fucks sake don't be a goddamned soulless self-absorbed fucking asshole and get the vaccine so YOU don't spread it around to others.

You are welcome.

[BuffJim]

59 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

But at the end of the day he seems to acknowledge that it’s a real illness. As far as we can tell, he’s not claiming it’s a hoax, or no worse that the  flu, etc. If he were, then I could “understand” his position. 

He is my age, late 50’s and wears a respirator mask. He definitely gives the virus his respect. He expressed reservations. He didn’t advise me not to take it. He said there is a way to create a vaccine that sheds protein spikes into the lungs. They can prevent Covid from taking hold. He doesn’t know if the vaccines were made this way. He said if they were, we are entering a situation where we don’t know how long the shedding lasts, and what other damage it will cause. Chances are it won’t be clear in February when I have to make a decision. 
Im alarmed at the prevalence of the virus at this point, although many people predicted it would peak in the typical cold/flu season. 

[Prophet Zacharia]

10 minutes ago, BuffJim said:

He didn’t advise me not to take it.

Thank you for the clarification, it had appeared that he (at least partially) dissuaded you from your Pulmonologist’s recommendation to take it. 

[Razors Edge ★]

15 minutes ago, BuffJim said:

He is my age, late 50’s and wears a respirator mask. He definitely gives the virus his respect. He expressed reservations. He didn’t advise me not to take it. He said there is a way to create a vaccine that sheds protein spikes into the lungs. They can prevent Covid from taking hold. He doesn’t know if the vaccines were made this way. He said if they were, we are entering a situation where we don’t know how long the shedding lasts, and what other damage it will cause. Chances are it won’t be clear in February when I have to make a decision. 
Im alarmed at the prevalence of the virus at this point, although many people predicted it would peak in the typical cold/flu season. 

I got the idea the new vaccine uses pieces of a spike protein (not the whole thing) to get the body's immune system to recognize the FULL spike protein that is on a COVID virus.  So, injecting enough of a spike protein similar to the spike protein that is part of a full and aggressive COVID virus so that the immune system is primed for the real thing.

So, the question would be - does a partial spike protein not attached to anything else present a problem for lungs? 

[BuffJim]

6 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

I got the idea the new vaccine uses pieces of a spike protein (not the whole thing) to get the body's immune system to recognize the FULL spike protein that is on a COVID virus.  So, injecting enough of a spike protein similar to the spike protein that is part of a full and aggressive COVID virus so that the immune system is primed for the real thing.

So, the question would be - does a partial spike protein not attached to anything else present a problem for lungs? 

I have not studied and I certainly may have missed the finer points of my Doctors conversation. He did use the term Spike protein, though. 

[Prophet Zacharia]

9 minutes ago, Razors Edge said:

So, the question would be - does a partial spike protein not attached to anything else present a problem for lungs? 

I think Jim’s doctor was taking about something else, a competitive blockade. A virus wouldn’t be able to enter a cell because there’s spike protein already attached, but without virus. 
 

The vaccine makes spike protein particles, but not to block sites in the lungs, but instead to mount a traditional immune response against it. 

[Square Wheels]

1 hour ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

What’s your concern with the RNA vaccine?

Don't want to get an unproven technology that was rushed to market.

1 hour ago, Zephyr said:

Are there vegan and non-vegan vaccines?  Would that affect(effect?) your decision?

Yup.  I got the flu shot, it had egg.  They had a non-egg version, but only available for people with reactions to egg.

[12string]

16 hours ago, BuffJim said:

I can assure you my Doctor is not lying. He could be wrong (I don’t think so on the man made origin from the Wuhan lab) but I assure you he’s not lying. I suggest being a little more tolerant of those you don’t agree with. 

Your doctor isn't lying - but he's repeating a lie.  He 100% absolutely IS WRONG.  Every legit epediemologist in the world who has studied this has said the construction of the DNA could NOT have been man made.  This isn't disagreeing" with me, it's disagreeing with FACTS.  And in this case facts can keep people alive.  Step one: it's manmade.  Step two: it's intentional to make money.  Step 3: the vaccine companies are in on it.  Step 4: people don't get vaccinated, people die, the pandemic lingers.  (I'm glad you haven't fallen for step 4)

Harsh? Intolerant?  Fine.  Put me on ignore.  I'm pissed, even more today, another acquaintance dead, and another medical professional close friend tested positive, and her husband will likely not survive it.  I am SO tired of losing friends, I'm SO tired of the beating my kids are taking in the hospital, I'm so tired of the despair my wife brings home from the church every day, and I'm SO pissed at people continuing to spread conspiracy theories.  So yay, he thinks it's real.  He undermines scientists when he repeats the bullshit.  And when that happens PEOPLE DIE!.

I've got nothing against you personally, you're a good guy.  But I'm not going to sugarcoat it when it comes to promoting a life saving truth.  If you don't like the way I do it, I'm sorry.  But I'm pissed.

All we had to do was listen to legitimate science.

[MickinMD ★]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:51 AM, donkpow said:

This will flip your lid. The vaccines have been proven to protect you from the COVID virus. The vaccines have not been proven to protect you from infection from the COVID virus.

I'll get the COVID vaccination as soon as I can.  I think the chances of a bad reaction to the vaccine are negligible compared to the chances of catching COVID and dying.  The only major downside I can see to getting it, aside from concerns due to certain preexisting medical conditions, is that having the vaccination is going to make some people think they're invincible and they'll go among crowds, etc. despite the small chance the vaccine didn't take.

I'll still be wary for months after the vaccination.

As Donk informed us, I've also heard you can be a symptomatic carrier of COVID after you are vaccinated and won't get hit with the symptoms so you should still wear a mask to protect others from your possible COVID germs after the vaccination.  You cant catch COVID from the vaccination, but you can get the flu-like symptoms for a few days - I got that with my flu shot for 2 days this year but that means my body is strongly building antibodies against the flu!

I also VERY strongly recommend the pneumonia vaccination - for added help for both COVID and flu.  The CDC webpage shows that 45% of those who died from COVID also had pneumonia.  It's well established that most of the people who die of the flu actually die from catching pneumonia and then it pushes them over the edge.

So, I got my 2 pneumonia shots, 5 years apart, that protect you from almost all bacteria that cause pneumonia for life.  I think I read somewhere that there's a single-shot-for-life version that's either available or in the works.

 

 

[BuffJim]

12 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

I'll get the COVID vaccination as soon as I can.  I think the chances of a bad reaction to the vaccine are negligible compared to the chances of catching COVID and dying.  The only major downside I can see to getting it, aside from concerns due to certain preexisting medical conditions, is that having the vaccination is going to make some people think they're invincible and they'll go among crowds, etc. despite the small chance the vaccine didn't take.

I'll still be wary for months after the vaccination.

As Donk informed us, I've also heard you can be a symptomatic carrier of COVID after you are vaccinated and won't get hit with the symptoms so you should still wear a mask to protect others from your possible COVID germs after the vaccination.  You cant catch COVID from the vaccination, but you can get the flu-like symptoms for a few days - I got that with my flu shot for 2 days this year but that means my body is strongly building antibodies against the flu!

I also VERY strongly recommend the pneumonia vaccination - for added help for both COVID and flu.  The CDC webpage shows that 45% of those who died from COVID also had pneumonia.  It's well established that most of the people who die of the flu actually die from catching pneumonia and then it pushes them over the edge.

So, I got my 2 pneumonia shots, 5 years apart, that protect you from almost all bacteria that cause pneumonia for life.  I think I read somewhere that there's a single-shot-for-life version that's either available or in the works.

 

 

I did the pneumonia shot, too. Hopefully provide more protection. My bout of pneumonia a couple years ago wasn’t fun, or cheap. 

[donkpow]

52 minutes ago, MickinMD said:

I'll get the COVID vaccination as soon as I can.  I think the chances of a bad reaction to the vaccine are negligible compared to the chances of catching COVID and dying.  The only major downside I can see to getting it, aside from concerns due to certain preexisting medical conditions, is that having the vaccination is going to make some people think they're invincible and they'll go among crowds, etc. despite the small chance the vaccine didn't take.

I'll still be wary for months after the vaccination.

As Donk informed us, I've also heard you can be a symptomatic carrier of COVID after you are vaccinated and won't get hit with the symptoms so you should still wear a mask to protect others from your possible COVID germs after the vaccination.  You cant catch COVID from the vaccination, but you can get the flu-like symptoms for a few days - I got that with my flu shot for 2 days this year but that means my body is strongly building antibodies against the flu!

I also VERY strongly recommend the pneumonia vaccination - for added help for both COVID and flu.  The CDC webpage shows that 45% of those who died from COVID also had pneumonia.  It's well established that most of the people who die of the flu actually die from catching pneumonia and then it pushes them over the edge.

So, I got my 2 pneumonia shots, 5 years apart, that protect you from almost all bacteria that cause pneumonia for life.  I think I read somewhere that there's a single-shot-for-life version that's either available or in the works.

 

 

The technological aspects of the vaccine aside and from a public health perspective, people must continue to maintain good infection control practices until herd immunity or eradication of the disease is accomplished.

[Randomguy]

Do you think there are people whose only hobby is getting vaccines?  All of them?

[Further]

I'm pretty damn sure I had covid last year, and I know I had it this year. Last year was much worse than this year.

So I'm not so sure you become immune to it, by having it or a vaccine.

 

 

[Prophet Zacharia]

31 minutes ago, Further said:

So I'm not so sure you become immune to it, by having it or a vaccine.

Immunity is short lived following an infection, particularly a mild case. A few months, maybe. There is a belief that the vaccine will provide a much more significant and longer lasting immunity. The second injection at 3 weeks builds off the initial exposure.

I don’t know if by having Covid twice you’ve mimicked the vaccine schedule, or not. You could have antibody titers drawn before you are asked if you want the injection to see if you already have lasting immunity?

[Prophet Zacharia]

16 hours ago, Square Wheels said:

Don't want to get an unproven technology that was rushed to market.

It’s technology that’s been in use since 2011 for cancer treatments. So it’s not new technology, just a new application.

I was curious as to how/why both vaccines currently available went the mRNA route rather than just use synthetic, produced proteins that we then inject. Best answer I could find was speed. That it would take too long to manufacture these proteins to then make the vaccine, when we can use the body itself to do the manufacturing, while simultaneously providing protection. 

[12string]

probably speed.  And the mRNAs are an all around better way to create protection.

On the good news side, during the family video chat last night, D2 said she's on the vaccine short list, probably early next week.  Though I can't imagine she didn't already have COVID.  She spent a weekend at her BF's and COVID slammed him hard Monday morning.  And son was all excited, he did the automation systems on Moderna's vaccine manufacturing plant, quite a sense of accomplishment for him.

[Longjohn ★]

The nurses who first got the vaccine seem to be doing well.

[Square Wheels]

I have an appt Friday

[Longjohn ★]

17 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

I have an appt Friday

I hope it is safe.

[Square Wheels]

16 minutes ago, Longjohn said:

I hope it is safe.

Me too.  That's my fear.

The virus is definitely not safe.

I probably won't sleep all week worrying about it.

[Prophet Zacharia]

32 minutes ago, Square Wheels said:

Me too.  That's my fear.

The virus is definitely not safe.

I probably won't sleep all week worrying about it.

You’ll be fine. I have my second shot tomorrow.

[smudge ★]

5 minutes ago, Prophet Zacharia said:

You’ll be fine. I have my second shot tomorrow.

Me too!

[Further]

I'll take it when my turn comes.

My rebel days are long past

[Longjohn ★]

I’m guessing if I want it I will have to start calling my doctors and tell them I want it. I have three factors that should put me toward the front of the line but right now I’m not going to worry about it.

[MickinMD ★]

There are 6 million people in Maryland and it's not clear when those of us "65-74" in Phase "1c" will be eligible.

The state website is confusing.  Apparently there are about 500,000 people in Phase 1A, 136K have gotten the first vaccine shot, 6K the 2nd, and 358K doses have been delivered to providers.

I have no clue how many people are in Phase 1B.  I, 70 am in Phase 1C.

I'm guessing I'll be eligible after about 1 to 1.5 million doses have been given - depending on the %age who decide to get it.

I'm hoping that happens some time in February.  My physician has sent a text saying he has no clue when he'll have vaccines and when they'll be available to different age groups.